3 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

ATWT in the 1950s, '60s, and '70s was astonishingly good and consistent in terms of quality, tone, and characterization. Oakdalians spoke and behaved like people you might actually know in real life, and had long, intimate, character-delineating conversations. It was subtle. This lured you in, forced you to pay attention, and got you emotionally attached to the Hughes and Lowell/Stewart families. Many long, drawn-out scenes had deep and powerful  subtext which would only be apparent to viewers who knew and understood the characters well. Storylines, while romanticized and occasionally melodramatic, were still grounded in reality. Family mattered, community mattered, relationships mattered. Multiple generations interacted with each other. The actors were chosen for their interesting screen presence and acting ability, not because they had six-packs or looked like Playboy bunnies in bikinis. We were presented with contemporary, adult material in a tasteful, thought-provoking manner. 

I would say ATWT was great from 1956 to about 1980, and then again from about 1985 to 1992-3. After that, we had ups and downs, but for a good 32 years at least, it was a pleasure to visit Oakdale every day. I have many fond memories. The reason I bemoan the final decade of the show is because that is when it became clear the show would never again be the literate, polished, adult character study it was created to be. 

 

But it had been a class act for decades!

 

What do you recall of the Phantom Fetus storyline and around what time was that done ? I am guessing 1970-72. Eileen said in her interview that the writers made it a ovarian cyst as kind of a quick way to end it, but it was intended continue as something else. She said she got so sick of running around for months saying she is pregnant and doesn't know how it happened. 

 

I am also curious of your memories of the Dr.Shea/Lisa/Claire story and his blackmailing Lisa. 

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Mart Hulswit's Ed was adorable! At the time, Vanessa was shallow and flippant and I thought Ed was too good for her.

 

Im always a little surprised MH didn't pop up on another show after GL. I think his is the definitive Ed, in spite of Simon having the role forever.

 

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

 

Sorry to go on but I think Anna Stuart ended up playing the end of the story with him as Maeve was on maternity leave.

 

I think the episodes are on this channel:

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGd-CMhNwvTZ_b7flg44FdA

 

Probably why I can't picture Maeve doing that! Lol. I don't seem to recall them ever mentioning it either, but then again, successive regimes seemed determined to forget Rita all together. 

MH did in smaller short term roles

Ralph Purdy AMC 1983

Harlan Abby OLTL 1985

Dr Burke SFT 1986

Ted, Loving Year unknown

Edited June 27, 20187 yr by John

2 hours ago, P.J. said:

And I think the Snyders were awesome. Even if their love lives were basically one long game of tag.

 

A few years ago, I remember seeing an interview where Julianne Moore once described the Hughes family as being a pillar of the community but that the situation with Frannie and Sabrina having the same father while their mothers were each other's aunts as "disgusting". 

7 hours ago, SoapDope said:

 

What do you recall of the Phantom Fetus storyline and around what time was that done ? I am guessing 1970-72. Eileen said in her interview that the writers made it a ovarian cyst as kind of a quick way to end it, but it was intended continue as something else. She said she got so sick of running around for months saying she is pregnant and doesn't know how it happened. 

 

I am also curious of your memories of the Dr.Shea/Lisa/Claire story and his blackmailing Lisa. 

 

I think La Fulton was being a bit...theatrical in her description of Lisa's "phantom fetus" story. It did not play out as dumb as she describes it, LOL, at least to me.

 

While dating Donald Hughes, Lisa began experiencing signs that suggested she was expecting. She thought she knew the symptoms after having had two children already. She did wonder aloud how she could possibly be pregnant, when she had been celibate recently. I'm sure Fulton felt the storyline went on forever, but keep in mind that particularly back then, time was pretty elastic on the soaps. A few weeks in Oakdale could stretch out for months in real life. So Lisa was perplexed about potentially being pregnant, worried about it for a few Oakdale weeks, and then was diagnosed as having an ovarian cyst. Voila, the mystery was solved. It might have been improbable that a woman could think she was pregnant under such circumstances, but we have seen crazier stories on daytime TV.

 

Before hooking up with Donald, Lisa had had an affair with Dr. Michael Shea, who was married to Ellen Stewart's mother Claire Lowell. This destroyed poor Claire and was the genesis of the decades-long bitterness Ellen felt towards Lisa. (Ellen continued to snipe at Lisa for YEARS.) Dr. Shea was a self-serving villain who initially refused to divorce his meal-ticket Claire even when Lisa ended up pregnant. After Claire was told about the baby, she divorced Michael and told him to marry Lisa for the sake of the child, but by then, Lisa had come to realize what an awful person he was, and she did not want Michael anymore.

 

Unfortunately, Michael discovered that Lisa's son Tom was involved in drugs, and by using this information, he blackmailed Lisa into marrying him. He wanted another rich woman to use, and he was not going to take no for an answer.

 

Lisa, being Lisa, did not take this lying down. She may have been blackmailed into marrying Dr. Shea, but she could not resist tormenting him and making his life miserable. Knowing what a horndog he was, Lisa would get all dolled up and parade around in front of him in sexy negligees. Once he was aroused beyond endurance, Lisa would march into the bedroom--alone--and bolt the door.

 

"Do you want me, Michael? Do you want me the way a man wants a woman?"

 

"Oh yes, Lisa! Yes, yes, yes, YES!!!!!!!!"

 

"Well, THAT'S JUST TOO BAD!!!"

 

SLAM GOES THE DOOR.

 

It was hilarious, and the audience enjoyed watching Lisa taunting him. Eileen Fulton played this material to the hilt, let me tell you. Viewers who only saw Lisa in the show's later, declining years, when the character was an irrelevant talk-do, don't know what they missed!

 

 

Here's another summary of the Lisa story from 1972. That makes it an Irna story as she returned in Jan 72.

I vaguely recall an interview where Irna had read about a woman in this situation and thought it was an interesting subject to dramatize.

Following the end of Bob's marriage to Sandy, Nancy has been trying to get Bob to take Lisa back. Yet Nancy's efforts are for naught as Bob falls in love with and marries Jennifer. Lisa soon takes up with Don, who once despised her for the way she treated Bob when she was married to him. Lisa becomes even fonder of Don after he becomes buddies with her son Chuck. Don is, however, a bit reluctant to make a full commitment to Lisa.

One day, Lisa starts experiencing pregnancy symptoms. Since she doesn't want Don to think she's trying to trap him into marriage, Lisa goes to Memorial Hospital for an abortion. Dr. Eric Lonsberry performs surgery on Lisa and finds out that she really isn't pregnant after all. She was suffering from an ovarian cyst that had caused the pregnancy symptoms. Rick Ryan, now a young intern, happens to be on duty during Lisa's ordeal and he concocts a lie to try to stop his mother's planned wedding to Bob. Rick tells Jennifer that Lisa thinks Bob was the father of her lost baby. Jennifer refuses to fall for the ploy and goes ahead with her scheduled marriage to Bob.

 

Edited June 28, 20187 yr by Paul Raven

Wasn't the big cliffhanger for that story something about how it was a matter of fact for Lisa and the audience that she was pregnant and going through with the abortion was a huge deal for a soap like ATWT at that time period and then, right at the end of the episode, when the doctor goes in to perform the procedure, he announces that there is no baby, fade to black, cue Charles Paul on the organ.

8 minutes ago, All My Shadows said:

Wasn't the big cliffhanger for that story something about how it was a matter of fact for Lisa and the audience that she was pregnant and going through with the abortion was a huge deal for a soap like ATWT at that time period and then, right at the end of the episode, when the doctor goes in to perform the procedure, he announces that there is no baby, fade to black, cue Charles Paul on the organ.

 

P&G had allowed Pat Matthews to have an abortion on AW, but back then, girls who chose that option had to suffer horrible consequences like sterility afterwards. I figured from the start that Lisa would end up either not being pregnant at all, or would lose the baby naturally via a miscarriage.

8 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

A few years ago, I remember seeing an interview where Julianne Moore once described the Hughes family as being a pillar of the community but that the situation with Frannie and Sabrina having the same father while their mothers were each other's aunts as "disgusting". 

 

A character having sex with multiple partners from the same family is rather revolting, but it happens often in daytime. Laura Spencer and the Horton brothers on Days, Leslie Jackson and the Bauer boys on TGL, Reva Shayne and all the Lewis men, TGL, Brooke and the Forresters (B&B), Bob and the Sullivan sisters (ATWT).

 

I've always found it icky. I could never sleep with my husband's brother or father. Ewww. 

5 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

A character having sex with multiple partners from the same family is rather revolting, but it happens often in daytime. Laura Spencer and the Horton brothers on Days, Leslie Jackson and the Bauer boys on TGL, Reva Shayne and all the Lewis men, TGL, Brooke and the Forresters (B&B), Bob and the Sullivan sisters (ATWT).

 

I've always found it icky. I could never sleep with my husband's brother or father. Ewww. 

 

In the case of Reva Shayne and Brooke Logan, there was always a whiff of scandal and they were regarded as town tramps and sluts-- also their families were never the most esteemed. 

 

The irony of Bob and his philandering and affairs was that it never once truly affected his reputation as a great doctor and a pillar of his community. 

In fact, the entire Hughes family usually managed to remain above infamy, for the most part, despite Kim's murder trial (yes, I know she was innocent) and Margo having an affair and child with a co-worker.  

Edited June 28, 20187 yr by DramatistDreamer

5 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

In the case of Reva Shayne and Brooke Logan, there was always a whiff of scandal and they were regarded as town tramps and sluts-- also their families were never the most esteemed. 

 

The irony of Bob and his philandering and affairs was that it never once truly affected his reputation as a great doctor and a pillar of his community. 

In fact, the entire Hughes family usually managed to remain above infamy, for the most part, despite Kim's murder trial (yes, I know she was innocent) and Margo having an affair and child with a co-worker.  

 

I never can remember how many knew about the initial Bob and Kim affair. Jennifer, obviously, and I guess John (?), and Rick Ryan. Maybe it became public with Rick? I wonder how public it was in those years as I can't remember if Nancy even knew until 1986. 

 

Margo did get backlash from Nancy, but yes, that was about it. I guess by then Oakdale was not exactly a moral place. 

5 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

A character having sex with multiple partners from the same family is rather revolting, but it happens often in daytime. Laura Spencer and the Horton brothers on Days, Leslie Jackson and the Bauer boys on TGL, Reva Shayne and all the Lewis men, TGL, Brooke and the Forresters (B&B), Bob and the Sullivan sisters (ATWT).

 

I've always found it icky. I could never sleep with my husband's brother or father. Ewww. 

 

The irony is that when Irna Philips returned to ATWT she was reportedly sickened by the Liz/Dan/Susan/Paul quagmire, killing off and writing out all of them, yet she went on to have Kim seduce her sister's husband, and was going to let her raise the child on her own. I suppose it shows the fragility and fickleness of a writer - Irna saw a lot of herself in Kim and was going to give Kim the life Irna had never really had. 

 

I've often wondered what audience reaction would have been if P&G hadn't stepped in and if Kim had had the child.

6 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

Wasn't the big cliffhanger for that story something about how it was a matter of fact for Lisa and the audience that she was pregnant and going through with the abortion was a huge deal for a soap like ATWT at that time period and then, right at the end of the episode, when the doctor goes in to perform the procedure, he announces that there is no baby, fade to black, cue Charles Paul on the organ.

 

Yeah, I think that explains why Lisa was supposed to be in the dark and believe she was having a baby, to make the pseudo-abortion more realistic. This story was operating on several levels. Plus it was kind of a spoof that of all people Lisa would be pregnant like the Virgin Mary. So it was classic Irna. Eileen probably didn't understand the goals of the story and was trying to play it "straight" which you can't really do with this kind of material.

Actually, I think you HAVE to play it straight, because any suggestion otherwise jeopardizes the audience's emotional investment.  But I do feel like that kind of story -- "I'm pregnant, and I don't know how it happened!" -- needs a bigger payoff than an ovarian cyst.  Maybe not another virgin birth, lol, but something bigger than a cyst.

Edited June 28, 20187 yr by Khan

7 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

P&G had allowed Pat Matthews to have an abortion on AW, but back then, girls who chose that option had to suffer horrible consequences like sterility afterwards. I figured from the start that Lisa would end up either not being pregnant at all, or would lose the baby naturally via a miscarriage.

 

A character having sex with multiple partners from the same family is rather revolting, but it happens often in daytime. Laura Spencer and the Horton brothers on Days, Leslie Jackson and the Bauer boys on TGL, Reva Shayne and all the Lewis men, TGL, Brooke and the Forresters (B&B), Bob and the Sullivan sisters (ATWT).

 

I've always found it icky. I could never sleep with my husband's brother or father. Ewww. 

LOL....On Y&R the Brooks sisters Leslie & Lorie slept with both Prentiss brothers. 

9 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I think La Fulton was being a bit...theatrical in her description of Lisa's "phantom fetus" story. It did not play out as dumb as she describes it, LOL, at least to me.

 

While dating Donald Hughes, Lisa began experiencing signs that suggested she was expecting. She thought she knew the symptoms after having had two children already. She did wonder aloud how she could possibly be pregnant, when she had been celibate recently. I'm sure Fulton felt the storyline went on forever, but keep in mind that particularly back then, time was pretty elastic on the soaps. A few weeks in Oakdale could stretch out for months in real life. So Lisa was perplexed about potentially being pregnant, worried about it for a few Oakdale weeks, and then was diagnosed as having an ovarian cyst. Voila, the mystery was solved. It might have been improbable that a woman could think she was pregnant under such circumstances, but we have seen crazier stories on daytime TV.

 

Before hooking up with Donald, Lisa had had an affair with Dr. Michael Shea, who was married to Ellen Stewart's mother Claire Lowell. This destroyed poor Claire and was the genesis of the decades-long bitterness Ellen felt towards Lisa. (Ellen continued to snipe at Lisa for YEARS.) Dr. Shea was a self-serving villain who initially refused to divorce his meal-ticket Claire even when Lisa ended up pregnant. After Claire was told about the baby, she divorced Michael and told him to marry Lisa for the sake of the child, but by then, Lisa had come to realize what an awful person he was, and she did not want Michael anymore.

 

Unfortunately, Michael discovered that Lisa's son Tom was involved in drugs, and by using this information, he blackmailed Lisa into marrying him. He wanted another rich woman to use, and he was not going to take no for an answer.

 

Lisa, being Lisa, did not take this lying down. She may have been blackmailed into marrying Dr. Shea, but she could not resist tormenting him and making his life miserable. Knowing what a horndog he was, Lisa would get all dolled up and parade around in front of him in sexy negligees. Once he was aroused beyond endurance, Lisa would march into the bedroom--alone--and bolt the door.

 

"Do you want me, Michael? Do you want me the way a man wants a woman?"

 

"Oh yes, Lisa! Yes, yes, yes, YES!!!!!!!!"

 

"Well, THAT'S JUST TOO BAD!!!"

 

SLAM GOES THE DOOR.

 

It was hilarious, and the audience enjoyed watching Lisa taunting him. Eileen Fulton played this material to the hilt, let me tell you. Viewers who only saw Lisa in the show's later, declining years, when the character was an irrelevant talk-do, don't know what they missed!

 

 

Thanks for those memories. I wish we could see all that now, but P&G deleted all of that beautiful material except for the scant few episodes rotting away in the UCLA archives. Lisa was the show in the 60's and 70's.

@vetsoapfan I was wondering what you thought of Penny's relationships. I know Jeff was her most popular pairing (the first "supercouple" of soaps). All I remember about Neil Wade is he went blind from the bookstore and didn't he die in a fire? Who were her other love interests? I think everything with Anton was offcamera, or with Phoebe Dorin, right?

 

What did you think of Penny's adopted daughter Amy? I know she and Penny had some scenes together in 1986, but otherwise did they ever actually interact on the show?

 

Irna Philips seemed to keep trying to integrate Asian characters into soaps. It's too bad it didn't ever work.