As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DramatistDreamer]

This is the episode where Bob tells Kim that he slept with Susan Stewart.  I don't think this episode is anywhere else on the 'Net.  In a weird twist of irony, Julianne Moore appears in a commercial for Oil of Olay during the break.

 

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Edited February 19, 2016 by DramatistDreamer

[vetsoapfan]

Another well-written piece by Channel, who "got" why ATWT was so beloved and had such a staunchly loyal audience...until it caved into the mindless pressure to "modernize" itself, thereby fracturing its core, throwing out its principle themes, axing beloved vets, and alienating a huge portion of its fan base.

[Mitch]

I love how the writer disses Nixon and her endless mentions of "relevance!" that she kept doing right up until the 80 or 90s I think. ...(yes, Erica Kane facing down a bear IS relevant!"  I remember Lemay sniffing that it wasn't "relevance," but "controversy" or something like that.

The sad thing was, ATWT could have been brought up to date with the basic premise intact. Look how long Y & R stayed at No. 1 with the glacial pace , the pauses, and the close ups that Irna loved.

 

[YRBB]

How wonderful this was. It put into exact words the way such slow, character-driven soap opera feels and appeals. And what a refreshing change not to put down soap operas for the sake of putting them down.

 

It really would be possible. Y&R kept its core tone/look intact well into 2003 and (a ratings drop that was brought on by massive cast changes notwithstanding) remained itself and remained strong well after most of daytime had completely lost itself.

[Mitch]

Sorry, Lemay corrected Nixon that it was not "relevant" storylines, but "topical,"  I like that anyone had the nerve to correct Nixon especially with her getting on her high horse when a lot of AMC was just plain camp...(but good camp...I loved Opal and the Glamorama!"

[All My Shadows]

I am SO NOT HERE for the heaps of AMC shade in that article at all. How is she going to sit there and be mad because other writers bashed ATWT to praise AMC while she's bashing AMC to praise ATWT? I wonder how she felt two years later when AMC dethroned ATWT in the ratings.

If anything, this article proves that the Every Soap Must Be Like the Good Soap trope has been alive and well for decades.

Edited February 21, 2016 by All My Shadows

[DRW50]

 

I think one of the issues is that ATWT was under frequent attack from the media throughout the '70s. The idea was that Agnes Nixon soaps, DAYS, etc. were supposed to be the ideal. It wasn't far off this point that TIME ran the Bill and Susan cover and graded each soap, giving ATWT one star and attacking it as old and tired. Maybe she wasn't being fair to Agnes or AMC, but she also clearly saw what was coming circa 1980...which was ATWT being flayed alive by P&G/CBS to try to make it more like ABC soaps.

Edited February 21, 2016 by DRW50

[All My Shadows]

Oh, I'm totally on board with her ATWT defense. It had a style and tone that worked for it, and clearly it was still appealing to the audience in 1976. I just wished she could respect that AMC, too, had a style and ton that work for it and its audience.

Was it known at this time that Agnes had been Irna's apprentice?

[vetsoapfan]

The very best thing about the soaps in their golden years was that each one was unique and had its own identity. In 1973, for example, ATWT, as a traditional, glacier-paced, character-based and conservative soap was very different than the sensual, racy, emotional melodrama that was THE YOUNG & THE RESTLESS, which in turn was quite different than the folksy, "topical" and often-humorous ALL MY CHILDREN. Once the networks decided all the soaps had to follow the same patterns and present the same kind of characters, material and tone, daytime dramas became interchangeable and colorless, and lost the identities that had set them apart from each other in the first place. I loved the fresh boldness and extreme emotionalism of early Y&R, but I also adored and felt comforted by the more quiet, conservative family values depicted on ATWT. When ATWT was dumbed down and "modernized" to make it "hip," with dreadful stories like the atrocious Mr. Big garbage, it was like watching a beloved, sedate-but-wise elderly relative being forced-fed LSD.

 

It was not a pretty sight. The plummeting ratings said it all.

[Paul Raven]

It seems that the first Susan,Connie Scott was a teen and she played against Jeffrey Rowland as teen Dan in 66.Then both Dan and Susan were aged. The next Susan,Diana Walker was in her 20's as was her successor Jada Rowland. Jada had been dropped by Secret Storm,so I wonder if in turn Diana was dismissed to make way for a popular soap star in Jada.Then Secret Storm wanted Jada back and that's when Marie Masters took over.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Paul Raven

[P.J.]

Well, to be fair, it seems like Agnes Nixon took her fair share of swipes at ATWT in the press before this article appeared. What strikes me is that in 1976 (two years before ATWT falls from the number one spot) they're already losing the publicity war. The one thing that always drove me crazy (and this is from the mid-80's on) is that ABC excelled at promoting themselves, while CBS seemed to always be about three steps behind, like deigning to promote their shows was somehow beneath them (or, just simply an unjustifiable expense).

 

I am a little baffled by the author's explanation of the Kim/Jen/Bob resolution. I guess I need to brush up on my history, 'cause I thought Jen died without knowing about it. I thought that was kind of behind Kim's angst during her pacemaker storyline, when Jen came back to comfort her.

[DRW50]

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[vetsoapfan]

So the troll known as Michael Brownstein was into flame-bating long before the internet came into existence. He would be fried to the wall if he posted such a smug, pompous, oily attack on a beloved series today.

 

Still, my heart bleeds for anyone with such crippling ADD that he could not sit still through slow-moving, nuanced adult drama and wanted, instead, to be fed a daily dose of women being stalked, thieves blackmailing, and heroines dealing with death, but not everybody in the audience was saddled with his issues. Erudite, adult viewers could actually watch television series that did not flaunt "good lookers" in speedos and negligees. There were many films and TV shows being produced at that time which were designed to excite and titillate the low-brows in the audience, so Brownstein and his ilk were well-served, but some of us wanted something more. Some of us actually preferred Jane Austen to CANNIBAL HOOKERS IN HEAT.

 

Wherever he is today, I hope our hapless critic is not still ranting and raving over the fact that character-driven drama continues to be produced, and continues to delight the viewing audience. Pffft!

 

[SoapDope]

I know what you mean about CBS. ABC became a power house and even in the 90's it seems like NBC promoted the crap out of Days Of Our Lives. It was a love fest with that show. You couldn't go to the super market without seeing Days on the cover of at least 5 magazines.

 

I noticed pre-1984 CBS seemed to be shut out of any kind of awards shows for the most part. Y&R actors from those first 10 years didn't even get nominated for their performances.

[P.J.]

The irony of Y&R being touted as fast-paced and fresh nearly had me exploding in laughter. It's very much a criticism of the moment, ain't it? Give them a little skin and everything seems a lot more exciting. I'm not denying that shows in the '70's (especially newer ones, I assume) were taking baby steps towards being "topical" faster than ATWT. But it's GL in '78-'79 that takes on marital rape first, isn't it? And I think it was clear that John raped Kim at the time, even if those words weren't used (although this review might be slightly before that happens).

 

What the freak was Y&R doing at the time? Other than showing people in bed, and Jennifer's ovarian cancer,, you had Jill and her daddy issues and Lori and Leslie boinking brothers.