As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[P.J.]

That clip kind of freaks me out. EF was acting, HBS is freakily like Margaret Colin, and Colleen Zenk looks exactly the same---save the length of her hair.

Sigh...I wish P&G would get their head out of their ass and put their stuff online.

[Soapsuds]

Sigh...great memories

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[DRW50]

The first of a few bits from a June 1973 Daytime TV Stars. It's a good glimpse into how chaotic ATWT must have been at this time...and the pictures of Judith McGilligan are certainly fascinating. Too bad they didn't put her in a more lively role.

Edited February 20, 2011 by CarlD2

[DRW50]

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[soapfan770]

Santoro seemed to at least according to IMDB to have moderately successful career out of making guest appearances on high profile shows up until his 1987 death. I know they later tried to make more ties to Paul with Stewart Channing but failed.

Do we have any indication as to why when Phillips resumed writing the show in 1972 she was so reckless? Her grudge from LIAMST against CBS perhaps? Aside from some of the Kim/Bob/Jennifer stuff it has always sounded like nothing good and bizarre stuff came out of Phillips' last tenure which is why the show lost a lot of ground to the NBC Daytime powerhouse of the 70s. I guess that's why Hunt and Ellis are credited for saving ATWT and maintaining its lead even though they later certainly overstayed their welcome.

[DRW50]

From what I remember the ratings for ATWT had gone down before Irna's return and she brought them back up (I might be wrong though) before things got really bad.

Dean Santoro (I know he wasn't supposed to be Ellen's biological child, but I still can't believe that he was supposed to be younger than Pat Bruder) seemed to blast the story and understand why Irna let him go, so I guess if he felt that way others might have too. It sounds like the story personally offended her and then add in her hostility towards Jane House and everything gets worse and worse. What other stories were going on at this time and what changes did she make to them?

I wonder if she had just lost all objectivity in her writing. I also wonder if the steep consequences she set up in the story with the Stewarts backfired on her with Kim/Bob, as it seemed like she had little interest in making Bob or Kim pay a price for their adultery.

It's funny because I HATED HATED HATED the "sympathetic adultery" story which was done on Ryan's Hope with Jill/Frank/Delia, yet I am fascinated by the Kim/Bob story and also by the other sympathetic adultery story she did with Edith Hughes and Ellen's father.

[soapfan770]

I don't think it was the adultery of Bob and Kim that did them in I think it was the fact two sisters were pregnant by the same man at the same time. Even 40 years later such an event would still be frowned on and be fodder for Maury Povich.

I feel bad for Bruder as she was only in her thirties playing a role with adult 30-something children and then grandchildren to boot. I guess that's why they tried to "youthenize" Ellen and the Stewart daughters in the early 80s after Dan died. I guess its also why Fulton had that grandmother clause in her contract into the late 80s. Still in one 1995 ep I have on tape Danni comes to visit Ellen and Nancy is there for coffee and both are dressed very similarly like two old ladies in spite of the 20+ year age difference in the two and Bruder being younger than Fulton and Hays.

[Paul Raven]

According to Don Hastings WLS interview Irna did bring up the ratings when she returned in early 72. But then things worsened.Perhaps in response to the downturn,Irna instigated all those sudden story changes.

It would have made more sense ,surely, to send Paul out of town rather than kill him off.

Paul going to his grandmother-would that have been Betty's Stewarts mother?

[saynotoursoap]

Once again, the "history" books have reported it incorrectly. As the World Turns performed far worse under Winifred Wolfe and Warren Swanson than anything Irna did. I believe the soap historians who wrote those books either misremembered events or desired to trash Irna in order to sell more copies.

As the World Turns was the leader of the daytime ratings from 1958 until 1971. During Irna's absence, the series fell as low as sixth place. I am talking about weekly ratings, not yearly averages. Keep in mind that CBS had always dominated the ratings in the 1950's and 1960's. By 1970, NBC and ABC started to give CBS a run for its money, and CBS panicked. A soap whose ratings dropped a tenth of one rating point caused serious concern for CBS.

Examine the following ratings from December 5, 1971.

10.5 General Hospital

10.0 The Edge of Night

9.7 Days of our Lives

9.6 As the World Turns

9.2 The Doctors

This is the reason Irna was reinstalled as headwriter. An ABC soap as #1, and the 13 year leader down at #4 was not acceptable to CBS. Once Irna resumed the writing duties, the ratings rose appreciably as you see below in the Nielsens from December 10, 1972. By the way, these ratings reflect the numbers during the weeks of Paul Stewart's death and Dan Stewart being shot at Memorial.

11.0 As the World Turns

10.2 General Hospital

10.0 Another World

10.0 Days of our Lives

9.4 The Doctors

As the World Turns is back on top under Irna, and it is also the only CBS soap to rate in the top 5. Contrary to the history books, As the World Turns did not "dive bomb" under Irna, though the ratings did slip a little. The following ratings reflect the numbers from March 25, 1973, immediately following Bob and Kim's one-night stand in Florida.

10.5 As the World Turns

9.5 Days of our Lives

9.3 Another World

9.2 General Hospital

8.7 The Doctors

As you can see, As the World Turns is still number one, but it has dropped half a rating point. CBS was afraid that the NBC serials would overtake its only top rating soap, which led to Irna's hasty departure. What I cannot stress enough is how seriously CBS reacted to any dip in the ratings. In the 1960's, the top 5 soaps all belonged to CBS. By 1972, it was lucky to have one in that lineup. This is the real reason that Love is a Many Splendored Thing and Where the Heart Is were canceled. Their ratings were not terrible, but by axing the lowest achievers, CBS brought its overall rating back up.

Edited February 24, 2011 by saynotoursoap

[DRW50]

Thank you for contributing this. I remember reading an article from around 1971 or 1972 in Daytime TV which talked about CBS' 11-year reign being ended. From what Schemering and Dean Santoro said it seems like the story with Dan/Paul/Liz/Susan might have been too much for some.

Did you personally have any issue with Irna's stories, or do you feel those were also scapegoated?

Edited February 24, 2011 by CarlD2