5 hours ago, Khan said:

I think Dan would have been LIVID to see his daughter involved with someone who was several years older and had a sketchy past.  That could have caused conflict between him and Kim, who might have shared Dan's point of view, but who also felt that interfering would only result in driving Betsy further away.

They had given that storyline to Nick...who knew what a scum Steve was..but they made Nick so obnoxious and overbearing to prop Steve up as the misunderstood hero, that it didn't work. 

Which leads me to a question, when did soaps stop writing multifaceted characters who had good and bad qualities, and started gearing the writing towards characters who they wanted to, or had become fan favorites. Lisa as a bad girl had motivation and people like Ellen and Penny rightfully were not loving her, and it was okay and more realistic. Steve could have been trying to change but still had bad qualities and Nick and Kim could have rightfully been wary of him, without slanting the writing so much!

2 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

I loved Jade and the role she played in the teen group, but aside from her introductory revelation as Rose’s daughter, all of her stories could have gone to Christina Hughes.

It always annoyed me that Jade was created as Rose's daughter when she could've easily been Andy and Denise's daughter and helped revamp the Hughes family. I feel like so much of those later years was focused on the Snyder family and they didn't need another addition. 

Irna created Kim as a fiercely independent woman and having a child didn't fit that profile.

Her sister Jennifer had 2 children and was seen as the more traditional woman. Interesting that later on Jennifer resisted having another child. I could see the reasoning however. Like many women she felt that she had done the mom thing and now with her children grown she wanted to devote time to herself and her interests/ambitions.

The Dan debacle began in 1966 when 8 year old down was suddenly early 20's played by an older actor.

The Dobsons and subsequent writers kept making the mistake of not balancing and replenishing the core and favoring too many new characters.

Let's not even mention killing off Chuckie Shea. Years of story thrown away in a few weeks.

9 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Let's not even mention killing off Chuckie Shea. Years of story thrown away in a few weeks.

I, for one, don't have a problem with killing off certain characters as a lot of fans do. However, killing off Chuckie Shea was just weird and meaningless to me as his death was very sudden, random and there was no storyline that came out of it. I never saw the purpose story-wise. 

Killing off Chuckie Shea was a huge blunder. I can picture him being written as bit of a charming bad ass compared to upstanding Tom. I can picture a Gregory Harrison/Richard Shoberg type playing him. Or maybe Michael Gross (when he had the beard) after Family Ties ended. 

8 hours ago, Khan said:

Meanwhile, what are everyone's thoughts on Valerie adopting Kate, which was another storyline that was running at the same time as the Willows and the whole Lisa/Grant/Joyce/Don/Mary-go-round?  I haven't read many comments about that storyline on this thread, so I was just curious. 

By that time Valerie was moving out of Oakdale, so I don't think we got to see what the story might have been, but, going on my memories of watching a decade ago, I liked the story. It was smaller, quieter, more character-based, and well-acted. And I agree that Kate, like Suzanne Davidson, felt "real," which is something that (aside from Lily) would be something ATWT started moving away from in the '80s and onward (they seemed to start again in the show's last few years, with characters like Parker, but by then it didn't matter). 

I love watching Judith McConnell but I am not sure we'll ever see the strongest material she had as Valerie - if she had any. It seems like someone at ABC and P&G decided to just hire some actors recently fired from GH and hope for the best. 

At least I can finally say I've seen Martin West as Don, with that enthralling dinner party clip just uploaded. Honestly, he's much more Boy Scout-esque than I had expected considering his years playing wicked Phil Brewer. This does fit the Hughes family, in some ways. Conrad Fowkes plays the character as a little darker, if still dull. 

After seeing that clip, I'm all the more disappointed Robert Altman likely never saw soaps. Barbar Rodell would have absolutely killed in one of his films. Or an Alan Rudolph film. 

 

Edited February 3Feb 3 by DRW50

"NEW" Vintage uploads:

EDIT... Looks like I was already beaten to share these, lol!

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3Feb 3 by Planet Soap

1 hour ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I, for one, don't have a problem with killing off certain characters as a lot of fans do. However, killing off Chuckie Shea was just weird and meaningless to me as his death was very sudden, random and there was no storyline that came out of it. I never saw the purpose story-wise. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they just wanted Lisa to be child-free and didn't want to age him given that Tom had already been aged by that point.

1 hour ago, SoapDope said:

Killing off Chuckie Shea was a huge blunder. I can picture him being written as bit of a charming bad ass compared to upstanding Tom. I can picture a Gregory Harrison/Richard Shoberg type playing him. Or maybe Michael Gross (when he had the beard) after Family Ties ended. 

He's what they tried to make Scott. 

I didn't mind Scott but they should have just brought Chuckie back from the dead.

Just now, DRW50 said:

By that time Valerie was moving out of Oakdale, so I don't think we got to see what the story might have been, but, going on my memories of watching a decade ago, I liked the story. It was smaller, quieter, more character-based, and well-acted. And I agree that Kate, like Suzanne Davidson, felt "real," which is something that (aside from Lily) would be something ATWT started moving away from in the '80s and onward (they seemed to start again in the show's last few years, with characters like Parker, but by then it didn't matter). 

I love watching Judith McConnell but I am not sure we'll ever see the strongest material she had as Valerie - if she had any. It seems like someone at ABC and P&G decided to just hire some actors recently fired from GH and hope for the best. 

At least I can finally say I've seen Martin West as Don, with that enthralling dinner party clip just uploaded. Honestly, he's much more Boy Scout-esque than I had expected considering his years playing wicked Phil Brewer. This does fit the Hughes family, in some ways. Conrad Fowkes plays the character as a little darker, if still dull. 

After seeing that clip, I'm all the more disappointed Robert Altman likely never saw soaps. Barbar Rodell would have absolutely killed in one of his films. Or an Alan Rudolph film. 

 

Literally just watched this scene a couple of minutes ago. When it ended... I was borderline screaming wanting to see more.

AH.

But I'm still so grateful of these glimpses of classic soaps. 

4 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

Currently watching the 1979 ep. More comments to come, but Dan’s presence makes me even more livid than the Ellen/David/Annie scene from ‘73. Patsy was FORTY YEARS OLD, and not only was John Colenback two years OLDER than her, but he looked at least 5 years older than his actual age. Part of me understands why MEB and the Dobsons moved away from the core Hughes and Stewart characters - when you get to the point where an actor is older than the woman playing his mother, how do you not just scrap the whole thing? Thankfully they fixed Tom before it got rough on that end.

I wouldn't even say the Dobsons moved away from the Stewarts - they used them all, even the one I might have punted for a while (Annie). They did not use the Hughes family well at all. I don't think that was down to the family being too old, because they could still heavily contribute to story, other than Chris. They could also have done more with Don and Joyce. Joyce was a spark plug and her being written out makes no sense to me. I think they just didn't get the Hughes family. I am not sure why they struggled so much with Bob, as they did a decent job with Ed Bauer. 

A part of me wonders if they may have blanched at the family because Bridget Dobson had an extremely difficult relationship with her parents, who, from some of her descriptions, remind me a bit of Nancy. Helen Wagner also suffered no fools.

Nothing against John Colenback, but I think they should not have brought him back when John Reilly left. Reilly was a popular leading man and seemed to be seen as a sex symbol too - he feels much older by this point, only a few years later. 

 

Edited February 3Feb 3 by DRW50

13 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I didn't mind Scott but they should have just brought Chuckie back from the dead.

I think Douglas Marland wanted to bring back Chuckie, but as Eileen Fulton has famously said, "Nancy Hughes buried Chuckie - and when Nancy Hughes buries someone, they STAY buried!".

I didn't realize until earlier this afternoon that the young lady who played Kate also played the heroine in the 1984 slasher film, "Scream for Help," co-starring none other than Marie Masters as her cuckolded mother, lol!

 

Edited February 3Feb 3 by Khan

9 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

They did do a short plot where Mary and Joyce are arguing, and Mary falls down the stairs and everyone is sure Joyce did it on purpose and pushed her. Mary woke up and told everyone what happened but then she went off someplace and got hit by a car and went into another coma..poor Mary, but I still don't know how anyone knew she actually was in a coma..she was so boring.

I think I remember seeing some of that. It probably could have been exciting but not with Mary living. Mary waking long enough to confess the truth and then dying might have worked.

I have vague memories of Mary being styled like Heidi in this period. And wearing pancake makeup.

1 minute ago, Khan said:

I think Douglas Marland wanted to bring back Chuckie, but as Eileen Fulton has famously said, "Nancy Hughes buried Chuckie - and when Nancy Hughes buries someone, they STAY buried!".

Who am I to argue with Eileen!

I suppose it wouldn't have made a difference whether Chuckie or Scott was there. The show was heading to a place where neither were going to work. The mistake was killing him off in the first place.

20 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

After seeing that clip, I'm all the more disappointed Robert Altman likely never saw soaps. Barbara Rodell would have absolutely killed in one of his films. Or an Alan Rudolph film. 

 

My eyes might be deceiving me, but in the screengrab, Barbara looks a little like Lesley Ann Warren (who did a couple Rudolph movies).

3 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I wouldn't even say the Dobsons moved away from the Stewarts - they used them all, even the one I might have punted for a while (Annie). They did not use the Hughes family well at all. I don't think that was down to the family being too old, because they could still heavily contribute to story, other than Chris. I think they just didn't get the Hughes family. I am not sure why they struggled so much with Bob, as they did a decent job with Ed Bauer. 

A part of me wonders if they may have blanched at the family because Bridget Dobson had an extremely difficult relationship with her parents, who, from some of her descriptions, remind me a bit of Nancy. Helen Wagner also suffered no fools.

Nothing against John Colenback, but I think they should not have brought him back when John Reilly left. Reilly was a popular leading man and seemed to be seen as a sex symbol too - he feels much older by this point, only a few years later. 

I think I misworded what I meant re: the Dobsons and the Stewarts, and it really wasn't the Dobsons' doing. Killing off Dan accomplished what I was really thinking about - moving on from when "the Stewarts" meant leading men Paul and Dan (though Paul had been gone for a while) and into "the Stewarts" being a family dominated by younger women. In a way, that probably saved the family and certainly stopped poor Ellen from having to be a 70-year-old woman by the time Pat Bruder was turning 50.

Funny thing is, Colenback was actually younger than John Reilly. It probably would have been tough to de-age Dan after such memorable storylines with Kim and Susan.

With all these wonderful new clips and episodes, I've been diving into ATWT history, particularly the writers. I'm fascinated by the 18 moth period between Jan 72 and July 73 when Irna returned and executed several wacky storylines and created one of the best characters ever, Kim Reynolds.  Irna wrote the show with David Lesan. David had a long history with Irna and he along with Julian Funt were SFT head writers after the Hursleys.  I just came across Lesan's papers that were donated to Uof Wyoming. The list is fascinating.  Many letters between him and Irna, Orin Tovrov (creator of The Doctors) and a list of 18 months of scripts/outlines of ATWT. I guess he wrote the dialog and Irna wrote the outlines.  I'd love to get my hands on his story notes from April 73 before they were fired.   Wow, there's so much out there from the glory days of soaps.  https://www.uwyo.edu/ahc/_files/pdffa/06148.pdf