As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DramatistDreamer]

It’s been years since I saw those scenes, I don’t know whether they are even still up on YouTube but from what I remember, it seemed as if Deas was halfway checked out by then. He likely knew he wasn’t going to reup his contract, maybe HBS wasn’t aware.

[Paul Raven]

in light of Bridget Dobson's passing,i was thinking about the Dobsons 2 stints as headwriters. Why did they return? There was never much mention of that in the press.

I think most would agree that the initial stint was pretty hit and miss.

They introduced James Stenbeck but early on he became a fully fledged villian which was limiting. At first he seemed to be more of a grey character as we were (like Barbara) expected to be swept away by his charisma and be intrigued by his dar side.

One thing James did do was introduce international intrigue to Oakdale.

In contrast to GL where Roger and Rita's shenanigans took place in Texas.

Margo was the other key character, being the daughter of John Dixon and a new feisty heroine.

Bur Brad, Nick, original recipe Steve were duds.

[P.J.]

It is startling to see all these extras after years of seeing a bare minimum. I was watching a GL episode from the early eighties, and there were like five people stepping off the elevator with the two contract actors. Like WTF?

[DramatistDreamer]

There was a YouTube channel (don’t know if it’s still active) that was filled with videos of women wearing fur coats. the ATWT ladies featured prominently on that channel.

[Soapsuds]

At the 41:41 mark...how many times did I hear Dan Region say it...furs by the Christie Brothers.

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[Mitch64]

My Mom always loved that Lisa and Kim "dressed to the nines" all the time! How many miles does busybody Lisa have on her car and when does she run her multitude of businesses? I love the early days of Marland here...(though its a bit clunky to have Bob mention to Lyla that they have a new set.)

 

He was all pissy as he had to work with HBS (nothing against her, she just wasn't Colin) which is another example of his self indulgence..

 

I loved her when she first came on and she was fighting Alex, formed an alliance with Roger, was tricked by Van to believe Henry was her dad...then the court battle and her fighting Roger (she had a great line reading, preggers with Roger's kid she told him...."You will NEVER see this child") prophetic as she lost it but full of steel.....and then they threw her at Buzz and she followed all of Buzz's women as being sacrificed to standing there and mooning over him.  

They were fired I think and they brought in a slew of nobodies to write (one was an ex AMC writer) and then there was a strike and then more nobodies and then Bunim came in as producer and hired them back..but your right, you never hear anything about that time which would be interesting.

I think they introduced James to be more like Alan Spaulding and at first he was mysterious and grey but then he did become a one note villain which was bad...Herrar was hot in the day he could have been written more gothic...(like why would dumb Dee fall for him when all he did was rub his hands together contemplating his next ridiculous scheme to torture Barbara?) 

Internation intrique should never been in Oakdale IL. making James a Swedish Prince was...just dumb. I wonder since Lisa Loring was so...limited as an actress Margo got some of her "Bad Girl" sleeping with a married guy action. 

[DramatistDreamer]

HBS said as much a few years ago, without explicitly saying so. She seemed to take it in stride with good humor but even through her diplomatic words, he seemed to act a bit like a petulant jerk to her in her earliest days in the role. It seemed like she was hazed too. They probably didn’t take hazing as seriously back then but what she described as a playful prank by Deas definitely comes off as hazing by today’s standards.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F1982-Christie-Brothers-Fur-Coat-Fashion-NY-Woman-Vintage-Photo-PRINT-AD-1980s-%2F263460920582%3F_ul%3DIL&psig=AOvVaw33t7urZqjEqUtigZGHmQWz&ust=1704904360466000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBIQjRxqFwoTCKCTze_d0IMDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

[janea4old]

I've never seen Another World, so I don't know the specifics of what this is referring to, but posting here for those interested. 
New article on SOD website. ("Scene and heard" mini-interview)
Mini-interview with Colleen Zenk, January 9, 2024,
about Brian Starcher's ATWT character fashion designer Hank Elliot who worked for Barbara Ryan. 
https://www.soapoperadigest.com/content/scene-and-heard-colleen-zenk-jordan-young-and-restless/

[MarlandFan]

I clearly remember that scene when Hank confided to Barbara that he was gay.  She was very loving and accepting and inferred that she had already guessed his sexuality, stating that being in the fashion industry she was no stranger to gay men.  Doug Marland always kept his characters 3-dimensional: Barbara was capable of being a major b!tch but was also capable of great kindness and sensitivity.  I've looked for that episode on YT but have never found it. 

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[Mitch64]

Agreed...Sheffer's cartoon Babs was pathetic compared to how Marland wrote her. I remember a scene after Chris died..Babs was on the outs with the family since she lied about screwing Tom, etc, but of course, she is included during the grieving and she quietly goes over to Andy, who was close to Chris and having a hard time and tells him, "Its okay to cry." Made things more real and you could really get into it when she pulled a bitch move, as opposed to her silly antics later on. 

[DramatistDreamer]

I remember that. I appreciated and liked that the storytelling made space for showing the multi-layered personality of Barbara, she could be more than one thing at a time, she could show different parts of herself. Still another side came out when she began to date Hal Munson. I also loved that the writing made space to develop a relationship between Andy and Bob’s parents by the time of Chris’ passing, Andy’s grief felt genuine. They used to show Andy on his way to play chess with Chris (and sometimes even Steve), so those characters bonded. I really miss when characters had that type of communal connection. In todays soaps, so many characters are siloed.

Did Hank come out to Barbara on one of their trips to NYC? It’s not clear in my mind but I feel like I saw some episode years ago. Unfortunately there are a number of episodes that got pulled over the years, for one reason or another.

[DRW50]

Unfortunately, finding a lot of that time frame is spotty. 

I've been impressed with what I have seen of how Hank was handled, especially given the era and P&G's conservative views and audience. We see explicit homophobia, but not done in a cartoonish manner, and they don't try to do what, say, AMC later did with Michael Delaney and make sure we know that he's a macho sports loving broski - through his run he remains closest to characters like Iva and Barbara, and on the outskirts of Oakdale. 

I do think it might have been more interesting if Hal had been homophobic (initially, anyway) instead of having him as accepting mostly to generate conflict between Paul and Hal.

[DRW50]

I do wonder if they transferred any of those qualities to Margo, unless they planned for an entire family of "loose" (as they used to say) women (and loose Craig). Then again once Anne Sward took over as Lyla, that side of her personality seemed to fade. 

Such a lost opportunity due to Helen Wagner being driven off ATWT as we never got to see Nancy react to Tom being with a woman with had been kept by James Stenbeck. (a few scenes for the wedding weren't going to cut it)

[Vee]

I remember seeing a few instances of that. How long/often did they play Andy (DeFreitas or otherwise) with his grandparents before Chris died? I'm assuming Andy was not seen much at all before Wagner and McLaughlin first left pre-Marland/Horgan in '81, so was it only over the course of the prior year or two before McLaughlin's death?

I am glad GH, for all its flaws, took pains to show Jackie Zeman's Bobbie with her grandchildren, relations, etc. all through the years. In recent times her being there for the children or her family was often the bulk of her appearances. So when both actor and character have untimely passed, their honoring her this week also has weight for all the generations.

Edited January 9, 2024 by Vee

[Soaplovers]

Marland made the Barbara change too quickly...and I think he recognized that and pulled back in it...thus making Barbara (Babs as my late mom used to call her) a multi dimensional character.

Barbara between 1986 to the explosion was her own worst enemy...she did some not so nice things from a place of insecurity (probably in reaction to her more doormat years of pre 1986).

At first post explosions Barbara was intriguing...she was scarred and already at a low point in her life.  With better writing, she could have really evolved into a more gothic 2000s answer to Vanessa Prentiss...but alas...not to be.