I thought I'd open since it's been a week. It still doesn't seem real.

Do any ATWT fans know who Douglas Marland's associate writers were during his brief, first HW'ing stint with the show?  Did he use Ralph Ellis and Eugenie Hunt's former writers, or did he bring aboard his own?

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Do any ATWT fans know who Douglas Marland's associate writers were during his brief, first HW'ing stint with the show?  Did he use Ralph Ellis and Eugenie Hunt's former writers, or did he bring aboard his own?

That whole stint is shrouded in mystery. Marland didn't get on air credit from what I can gather and there was no official announcement at the time in contrast to 1980 when there was big to do about the Dobsons going to ATWT and Marland to GL.

It seems it was some sort of caretaking arrangement as Marland made no major cast or story changes. So it seems the plan was for him to take on GL and perhaps there were issues with the Dobsons moving to ATWT sooner so he was given the ATWT stint.

Who knows?

2 hours ago, TVFAN1144 said:

This was a great period.   All the vets were featured.  Slow moving, long conversations, and character development.  Loved the Bennet Hadley story.  I think the Stewart’s had just lost Dan so Kim and Betsy were grieving 

 

This period gave way to the “modernization “ period with split scenes and action oriented plots.  I guess I see the need to do that to compete with shows like All My Children that were making inroads.  My issue is it put veterans in situations out of character.  Not to mention that this next period gave us the super exciting Brad and Dee stuff

Problem was that his 13 weeks was too stodgy with not a lot of action.

Granted, the 1980 to 1983 period of trying to modernize the show was almost too far in the opposite direction.

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

That whole stint is shrouded in mystery. Marland didn't get on air credit from what I can gather and there was no official announcement at the time in contrast to 1980 when there was big to do about the Dobsons going to ATWT and Marland to GL.

It seems it was some sort of caretaking arrangement as Marland made no major cast or story changes. So it seems the plan was for him to take on GL and perhaps there were issues with the Dobsons moving to ATWT sooner so he was given the ATWT stint.

Who knows?

That's interesting, @Paul Raven.  Immediately, when I read your post, I thought, "Well, maybe Douglas Marland didn't receive on-air credit, because he was technically still employed at GH," kind of like how Frank Salisbury admitted to writing for GL some time before actually being credited on-screen because he was still writing scripts for GH, too.  But I don't know exactly when Marland quit GH, so that theory might not be plausible.

(Also, hasn't Bridget Dobson said in the past that P&G had them switch shows, because they found Marland's bible for ATWT unsatisfactory?  Of course, I'm presuming Bridget is correct and not misremembering.)

I agree with you, @Paul Raven.  I think when Marland became available after leaving GH, P&G snapped him up, rather than lose out to another, non-P&G-produced show.  P&G's plan was for him to replace the Dobsons at GL, and for the Dobsons to replace Ellis & Hunt at ATWT.  However, for contractual or other reasons, the Dobsons were unable to leave GL before the start of the new year.  (Perhaps, they needed time to wrap up their stories before leaving; or perhaps, they needed time to watch and create a bible for ATWT before officially taking over).  So, P&G gave Marland the ATWT gig with the understanding that it was only temporary and that he would be moved over to GL when the Dobsons were contractually able to move over to ATWT.  Thus explains why Marland didn't make any major changes at ATWT during the 13 weeks he was there.

Like you said, @Paul Raven, it's a mystery, lol.

I'd love to know, though, if any fans here remember what the Willows mystery was like when Ellis & Hunt were still the HW's.  I think it was Christopher Schemering who described it as being "limp" before Marland took over the story.

25 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Problem was that his 13 weeks was too stodgy with not a lot of action.

I think the issue was that Douglas Marland was too locked into his job at ATWT being a temporary one until Bridget and Jerome Dobson were ready to take over (as I've said above).  Under those circumstances, he probably couldn't shake up the show TOO much, in case it interfered with the Dobsons' plans.  So, he kind of had to continue on with what Ralph Ellis & Eugenie Hunt had left behind, and maybe tighten up the stories in the meantime.

But you are right, @Soaplovers: compared to what soaps give us today, late '79 ATWT is a joy of watch, but in the context of the times, the Willows storyline, in particular, never quite gets off the ground.  ETA: Maybe it's because I'm watching those scenes decades after the fact, but it seems silly to me that the show invested so much airtime in someone (Doug Higgins/Bennett Hadley) who clearly has no long-term potential, either as Lisa's romantic interest, or as anything else.

Edited June 2, 20232 yr by Khan

How much can you really do with 3 months in a finite stint on a soap anyway?

8 hours ago, Darn said:

How much can you really do with 3 months in a finite stint on a soap anyway?

I agree.  You're basically just wrapping up your predecessor's storylines.

At least he was sort of familiar with the show when he was permanent later on

15 hours ago, Khan said:

That's interesting, @Paul Raven.  Immediately, when I read your post, I thought, "Well, maybe Douglas Marland didn't receive on-air credit, because he was technically still employed at GH," kind of like how Frank Salisbury admitted to writing for GL some time before actually being credited on-screen because he was still writing scripts for GH, too.  But I don't know exactly when Marland quit GH, so that theory might not be plausible.

(Also, hasn't Bridget Dobson said in the past that P&G had them switch shows, because they found Marland's bible for ATWT unsatisfactory?  Of course, I'm presuming Bridget is correct and not misremembering.)

I agree with you, @Paul Raven.  I think when Marland became available after leaving GH, P&G snapped him up, rather than lose out to another, non-P&G-produced show.  P&G's plan was for him to replace the Dobsons at GL, and for the Dobsons to replace Ellis & Hunt at ATWT.  However, for contractual or other reasons, the Dobsons were unable to leave GL before the start of the new year.  (Perhaps, they needed time to wrap up their stories before leaving; or perhaps, they needed time to watch and create a bible for ATWT before officially taking over).  So, P&G gave Marland the ATWT gig with the understanding that it was only temporary and that he would be moved over to GL when the Dobsons were contractually able to move over to ATWT.  Thus explains why Marland didn't make any major changes at ATWT during the 13 weeks he was there.

Like you said, @Paul Raven, it's a mystery, lol.

I'd love to know, though, if any fans here remember what the Willows mystery was like when Ellis & Hunt were still the HW's.  I think it was Christopher Schemering who described it as being "limp" before Marland took over the story.

I think the issue was that Douglas Marland was too locked into his job at ATWT being a temporary one until Bridget and Jerome Dobson were ready to take over (as I've said above).  Under those circumstances, he probably couldn't shake up the show TOO much, in case it interfered with the Dobsons' plans.  So, he kind of had to continue on with what Ralph Ellis & Eugenie Hunt had left behind, and maybe tighten up the stories in the meantime.

But you are right, @Soaplovers: compared to what soaps give us today, late '79 ATWT is a joy of watch, but in the context of the times, the Willows storyline, in particular, never quite gets off the ground.  ETA: Maybe it's because I'm watching those scenes decades after the fact, but it seems silly to me that the show invested so much airtime in someone (Doug Higgins/Bennett Hadley) who clearly has no long-term potential, either as Lisa's romantic interest, or as anything else.

I view The Willows to be a rough draft for Nola/Quint at Thornbury Hill.

If you think about it...you had the 'anti-heroine' needing a break from conflicts in their lives, they stumble into a gothic location, and become friendly with a mysterious man that we aren't sure is a good or bad soul.

Had Marland stayed on beyond those 13 weeks..he might have done more with the Willow story.. or he maybe used it as a stop gap for Grant/Lisa until he could get Joyce back onto the show.

 

Had ChatGPT write an episode of ATWT it wrote Lucinda’s death? 😭😭 

FADE IN:

 

INT. OAKDALE MEMORIAL HOSPITAL - DAY

 

We see a close-up of a heart monitor beeping steadily. The camera pans out to reveal a hospital room where we see LUCINDA WALSH lying in a hospital bed, hooked up to various machines. Her daughter, LILY SNYDER, is sitting by her side, holding her hand.

 

LILY: (tearfully) Mom, please wake up. I need you.

 

Suddenly, Lucinda's eyes flutter open.

 

LUCINDA: (weakly) Lily...is that you?

 

LILY: (relieved) Yes, Mom. I'm here.

 

LUCINDA: (struggling to speak) Lily, I need to tell you something...something important.

 

LILY: (leaning in) What is it, Mom?

 

LUCINDA: (pausing for a moment) I've been keeping a secret from you...for years.

 

LILY: (concerned) What kind of secret, Mom?

 

LUCINDA: (taking a deep breath) Lily, you have a sister.

 

LILY: (shocked) What? A sister? How is that possible?

 

LUCINDA: (weakly) When I was young, I had a brief affair with a man named... (pauses) ...James Stenbeck.

 

LILY: (gasping) James Stenbeck? The man who terrorized our family for years?

 

LUCINDA: (nodding) Yes. I didn't know who he was at the time. We had a daughter together, but I gave her up for adoption. I never told anyone, not even your father.

 

LILY: (processing the information) Why are you telling me now, Mom?

 

LUCINDA: (crying) Because I don't want to die with this secret. I want you to find your sister and bring her into our family.

 

LILY: (nodding) I will, Mom. I promise.

 

Suddenly, Lucinda's heart monitor starts beeping rapidly.

 

LILY: (panicking) Mom! Mom, what's happening?

 

NURSE: (rushing in) You need to leave the room, Miss Snyder. We need to work on your mother.

 

LILY: (tearfully) Please save her. Please.

 

The nurse ushers Lily out.

 

FADE OUT

Wow, even ChatGPT wants to create a backstory for James and Lucinda out of thin air, lol.

10 hours ago, Khan said:

Wow, even ChatGPT wants to create a backstory for James and Lucinda out of thin air, lol.

Yikes, and a bad one at that.

I've never understood that whole CBS/P&G musical chairs interlude in 1979, and I do like what I've seen of the Willows more than what I've seen of early '80s ATWT.

Were the Dobsons more of a "name" than Marland in 1979?  He was the one who had just brought a show from the brink of cancellation to #1 in the ratings.  If he was happy with ATWT, why did P&G care if the Dobsons were ready to leave GL or what?  For that matter, did either Marland or the Dobsons actually have a preference for one show or the other?

It's hard not to play Monday morning quarterback.  Marland's longer run at ATWT was obviously more of a success than the Dobsons' time there, and he clearly adored the show or at least came to adore it.  Both shows did live to die another day, so it's not like it probably would have made a huge difference in terms of longterm ratings. 

I just wonder if the Dobsons had stayed at GL and been the ones tasked with "modernizing" it, would they have taken a lighter touch than they did at ATWT, dealing with characters/actors they had known and worked with for years?  And if Marland had had a long-term writing stint at ATWT just a year or so after it had been at the top of the ratings, instead of years after its fall, and written the kinds of material he did in the late '80s/early '90s, I wonder how would those recently lapsed viewers have reacted?

Edited June 4, 20232 yr by DeliaIrisFan

10 minutes ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

I've never understood that whole CBS/P&G musical chairs interlude in 1979, and I do like what I've seen of the Willows more than what I've seen of early '80s ATWT.

I'd say the huge rise of ABC shook up both CBS and P&G. Then the February 4, 1980 CBS soap schedule change didn't help either.

52 minutes ago, kalbir said:

I'd say the huge rise of ABC shook up both CBS and P&G. Then the February 4, 1980 CBS soap schedule change didn't help either.

I am sure the suits were freaked out, but why would they not just hire Marland for any/all soaps he wanted to write ASAP - and have him write GH-like stories from the start?