I thought I'd open since it's been a week. It still doesn't seem real.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic, and following up on my comment that Seth and Casey were duller then dull. Marsha didn't fall asleep..but I am not sure how they got her out.

Ah, the vagaries of online posting! You had me going there for awhile. LOL, I didn't think Casey was all that bad, though. I could've managed with quite a bit less of Seth, he was spread way too thin.

This Emily--Colleen McDermott--was somewhat bland and seemed like an average college co-ed and nothing more. Maybe just a miscast?

As the story unraveled, the actress' shortcomings really showed. It made no sense that Emily (as played by this actress) had an affair with Hensley, much less with James. It really didn't help that the actor who played Hensley looked too creepy to be anyone's romantic interest.

It was also great to see Barbara slowly buckling as Tonio and Tad Channing swarmed around her. Her comeuppance was just around the corner (starting with Margo's miscarriage during the '86 November sweep).

I think I read an interview where Marland said he made a mistake in casting her. He sort of obliquely made references to 'hair models' and I think he may have been talking about her. I think he mentioned that she was nice but was ill suited for the role.

I wonder whether Marland, realizing his mistake, decided to concoct this romance with James, knowing that Anthony Herrera was doing a temporary stint, so he could conveniently send Emily off the canvas, ostensibly to run away with James, giving him time to re-cast the role.

I was watching those scenes between Emily and Holden and thinking 'Gosh, this must be when Marland realizes that it's not gonna work' . John Hensley was a novice himself and was okay when paired with much stronger actresses like Martha Byrne, Lisa Brown, Kathryn Widdoes, Elizabeth Hubbard or even Jennifer Ashe. Against Colleen, they both looked like they were in the wildnerness in their scenes together! And Colleen just never seemed to improve, no matter who she was paired with.

I wonder if Emily was originally conceived as a Girl Next Door but for the recast decided that she should be a vixen on her return to Oakdale after jet setting with James. Smart move to cast Melanie Smith and ditch the Girl Next Door persona.

Edited March 8, 201411 yr by DramatistDreamer

Wasn't Emily brought in having a thing with Tad Channing?

I liked Casey and Seth. I thought Casey had a lot of personality and was a nice calm voice in the neurotic Montgomery/Peretti family. Seth made sense to me as the older brother who had to repress most of himself to keep the family going.

I don't think Seth ever worked in romances though (a part of me often wondered if he was secretly gay), although his relationship with Angel was sweet.

Emily & Tad Channing? I don't remember them even interacting. I remember Tad had a thing for Betsey but it also seemed he wanted to torture Steve, and by proxy, Craig, so Betsey was an attractive target. Emily seemed an observer and she used a few awkward situations between Tad & Betsey to try to plant seeds of doubt in Steve's mind. At the time Emily seemed a bit jealous of Betsey because Betsey had the Stewarts and Emily only had her mother. It seemed that Emily had previous involvement with James Stenbeck and used Hensley (Duncan's solicitor) as cover. I don't remember her having anything much to do with Tad Channing, who was Iva's ex.

I have this theory about the Angel incest storyline. I believe it was written because of the changes made to the Iva/Josh Snyder storyline. Perhaps at the time (JMO), ATWT felt they couldn't 'go there' because they now wanted Lily and Holden and wanted to limit the disfunction so they made sure Iva was not a Snyder but because of Josh's hideous actions they severed his ties to the newly venerated Snyder family (which was now poised to be a core family). Of course, seeing William Fichter and deciding they wanted to keep him, they had to come up with that whole abuse story to try to justify his actions (which never sat well with me).

The Angel storyline was probably closer to what Marland envisioned for Iva until Holden & Lily happened. He probably saw an opportunity to go bold with fresh characters (Angel & her father) that had no deep ties to a core family.

Just my theory.

Edited March 9, 201411 yr by DramatistDreamer

I thought Tad was with Emily in San Francisco when he was using her as a ruse to get Betsy out there. Or were they not together? I haven't seen all of that material.

I always wondered if they were going to have Emily seduce Steve (or make it look like she had) if Frank Runyeon hadn't quit.

Good theory about Angel and the incest. I think it was something that Marland was dedicated to telling, as he had told a similar story several years earlier on Loving, with Jennifer Ashe. But I do wonder how abruptly his plans changed. It's so awkward seeing creepy Holden macking on Lily and manipulating her, but even moreso if the show hadn't undone their being blood relatives.

I watched a bunch of YT vids and came across one where I got the impression that Emily was lying about San Francisco. Or rather, she didn't admit that she was never really there.

I think she wanted to hide her true whereabouts and whom she was really with, so when Betsey assumed that Tad had somehow tracked her down to San Francisco, luring Betsey out there in the process, Betsey intended to discuss it with Emily on her return from her wild goose chase but never did until after Tad's murder.

I think there was an episode where even Tad was shocked that his lie hadn't been found out and he kept trying to make sure he'd stay one step ahead, pumping Barbara for information and trying to get her to find out how much the Stewarts knew about Emily's whereabouts when she was missing.

It was kind of outrageous that Emily and Betsey never discussed it, especially since Betsey went all the way to California to track Emily down but Emily was trying to hide her true whereabouts and looked for every opportunity to change the subject, and then some soap plot device would insert itself (Steve or Ellen would come in with Danielle or the phone would ring, etc).

Yes, DRW50, Holden's playing Lily for a toy, (even colluding with Meg) was creepy and awkward for me too. I wasn't a fan of Lily & Holden but I understand the story possibilities in putting them together. I preferred Dusty (yes, Brian Bloom had a lot to do with it) but Dusty was honest, without guile and that would've presented a big challenge for creating conflict and drama over time. Holden annoyed me with the games but I guess Lily liked them. She seemed to prefer playing games to Dusty's honest-even- if-it-hurts approach.

Edited March 9, 201411 yr by DramatistDreamer

Incest does seem like a recurring theme in Marland's post-GH career. I think the Angel incest story was more happenstance, as I believe the scab writers sent Holden off with Angel during the strike.

I'm not sure there was any backing off in the Iva/Josh story, since I think her being adopted was always the plan.

I'm not sure there was any backing off in the Iva/Josh story, since I think her being adopted was always the plan.

Actually, P.J., I don't think it was. IIRC, Lily and Dusty were supposed to be endgame (yes, I know, that dreaded word, lol) with Holden as the obstacle. That's why he came across so strongly in his first meeting with the two. However, it became apparent to Marland and then-EP Robert Calhoun that Martha Byrne generated more 'heat' with Jon Hensley than she did with Brian Bloom. Holden truly was supposed to be Lily's biological uncle until that point (although, that was a secret that wasn't supposed to be revealed right away). Altering Iva's parentage, therefore, allowed them to proceed with Holden and Lily's romance "down the road" w/o undoing the bulk of Marland's other plans, including Holden and Emily's ill-fated relationship and Lily's losing her virginity to Dusty, which had been included in his original, long-term story projections.

Ironically, Robert Calhoun admitted in one interview during that time how "green" Colleen McDermott was as an actress, but that he remained excited about her and wanted to get her into acting classes right away. Guess the classes didn't take, huh, Cal?

Edited March 10, 201411 yr by Khan

Good theory about Angel and the incest. I think it was something that Marland was dedicated to telling, as he had told a similar story several years earlier on Loving, with Jennifer Ashe.

I think so, too. According to at least one interview I've read over the years, Marland was deeply dissatisfied with ABC pressuring him into truncating the Lily Slater story on LOVING. (Supposedly, ABC wanted their MOW, "Something About Amelia," to be the groundbreaker in stories about familial incest, but I don't know whether that was the truth.) Re-telling the story with Angel and Henry Lange, therefore, was Marland's way of rectifying the error -- just as the DID story w/ Royce Keller was supposed to be his way of re-telling a similar story w/ his GUIDING LIGHT character, Carrie Todd Marler (played by Jane Elliot), as he saw fit.

Yes, DRW50, Holden's playing Lily for a toy, (even colluding with Meg) was creepy and awkward for me too.

It's nothing, though, compared to how Marland originally saw Lily and Holden (or "Clem," as he was SUPPOSED to be named). In the original story projections, their relationship possessed a real fetishistic (sp?) streak, including one scene where Lily actually whips the "Holden" character w/ her riding crop.

Didn't they do that in an episode?

I can't remember.

I notice that as 1986 progresses, Lily becomes less and less of the brat that people are able to call out, and more of the teenage saint.

Didn't they do that in an episode?

I don't THINK so, but I might be wrong. Does anyone with a better memory (or actual VHS tapes) know?

I notice that as 1986 progresses, Lily becomes less and less of the brat that people are able to call out, and more of the teenage saint.

I feel like that's b/c Marland fell for Martha Byrne the same way he did for Lisa Brown at GUIDING LIGHT. It seems as if Agnes Nixon and Bill Bell were the only two (aside from Irna) who could look to a certain character or actor as a "muse" w/o veering into "Mary Sue" territory. I mean, you could TELL how Bell in particular felt about Y&R's Victor, but he never pretended his motivations were pure and altruistic.

Speaking of Iva, I had no idea she and Kirk once had a thing for each other - and that Beverly Penberthy (Pat from AW) played his former love interest until watching a random episode from early 1989 on YT.

Kirk and Iva dated for almost two years. Initially they had a fun relationship, but between his lies (he'd abandoned his wife and young children) and her going to therapy for her rape, they drifted apart. He took up with her sister Ellie.

Susan Brown played his old love most of the time. She wasn't available during those 1989 episodes.

Thanks for clarifying that. Susan Brown aka Gail Baldwin? Somehow I can't see her and Beverly Penberthy playing the same role, as they look and sound absolutely nothing alike, but it seemed like that character wasn't going to be a major player on the canvas anyway.