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AMC: Agnes Nixons mistake


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Anyway, I have to say, having seen both the Kevin Sheffield coming out story and the Bianca Montgomery coming out story from beginning to end, Bianca's paled in comparison.

Word (although, to be honest, neither enthralled me all that much).

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In some ways, the stories at the time, a few of them anyway, offended me so much at that specific time, that the memory has stayed (the same is true for a lot of what was going on at OLTL at that time). If I watch them again I wonder if I might have more of a positive opinion.

I liked that run (except the Tanner story which I think was truly offensive and wrong headed)--even if during the spring of 97 the only ABC soap I thought was on fire was the soon to be canceled The City (it was also the only soap to have its ratings increase week to week--albeit by tiny inclements--the others were starting to tumble). But OLTL was awful then--I don't even remember specific stories, just so much of a feeling of NOTHING--like no structure, or anything.

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Word (although, to be honest, neither enthralled me all that much).

For a non character like Kevin, I think it was *great*, though the actual reparitive therapy part was better, as said. Of course I was dealing with my own sexuality issues, and was Kevin's age, at the time so that may have played a part (it was done much better than OLTL's Billy Douglas story--albeit that assuredly paved the way). And I appreciated that Broderick tried to carry on with the character (even the Kelsey falls for him story, while some could say it was to avoid having a bf forhim--though he did get one--a day player--was realistic and relatable I think).

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I don't want to take away how meaningful Kevin's coming-out tale was for you, Eric, but I had a serious problem giving such material to a character we hadn't known for very long and to an actor who just wasn't very good.

That's my problem, really, with most coming-out stories on daytime: they're always about young adults I just don't "know" as a viewer. Even Luke's story on ATWT felt hollow to me b/c (even though I'd seen Luke from the time of his birth) Van Hansis had not been in the role for very long.

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I remember Kevin's sense of struggle between coming out and getting his parents and brother's approval, who ultimately rejected him. I remember "Doc Chapman" and the conversion therapy. I remember the mother with hideous hair and clothes loving her son but still being reluctant to accept him back into the family as a homosexual. I remember Kevin and Kelsey and the pressure he felt (and I remember hating Kelsey for that). There were just certain beats that were in the Kevin story that were missed in the Bianca story.

YES. Full on (and I know you weren't a big fan of Broderick's tenure in general)

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I don't want to take away how meaningful Kevin's coming-out tale was for you, Eric, but I had a serious problem giving such material to a character we hadn't known for very long and to an actor who just wasn't very good.

That's my problem, really, with most coming-out stories on daytime: they're always about young adults I just don't "know" as a viewer. Even Luke's story on ATWT felt hollow to me b/c (even though I'd seen Luke from the time of his birth) Van Hansis had not been in the role for very long.

I admit it's largely a personal thing, but I think the actor who played Kevin actually was very good for a newbie--a lot of natural charm and comfort in front of the camera--I think he was much more than adequate. But I will agree (and did say) that it's too bad that till Bianca they had to use all these newbie characters for coming out stories--but we know that was a network thing (just like Billy Douglas' story was meant to be about Joey I think it was). Broderick WAS clever in making it seem that Scott was the one who was going to come out and keeping Kevin's secret a bit of a surprise--and after the focus on Jason and his drinking, his infatuation with Dixie, etc

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But I will agree (and did say) that it's too bad that till Bianca they had to use all these newbie characters for coming out stories--but we know that was a network thing (just like Billy Douglas' story was meant to be about Joey I think it was).

Yeah, Joey Buchanan was slated to "come out" before ABCD nixed the idea. Even if Michael Malone had been allowed to go through with his original plan, though, I wonder how successful he would've been for me. For one thing, there's the fact that I simply couldn't trust him to write a topically relevant story in a way that wasn't preachy and heavy-handed. (His earlier attempts at it, such as w/ the short-term arc about domestic abuse involving Viki's never-before-seen maid and her husband, left me unimpressed.) For another, Viki would undoubtedly stand by her son's decision to come out; and though Malone and his team liked to think Clint was an old-fashioned cowpoke homophobe, the Clint I know would've supported Joey's decision, too (even as he and Viki were concerned about Joey's personal safety), because being "a man" meant standing up for what he thought was right, even if it meant standing alone. So, really, where's the conflict?

Now, if Powell had come out at the climax of Marty's rape trial.... ;-)

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I liked Malone's writing a lot more than you--but I think you raise more than valid points. Still, it woulda meant we'd have a gay character permanently on the canvas (yes permanently even if he was in London--he'd still at least get mention). Having Kyle and Fish come out, in that instance was a regression (although the way Carlivati introduces random new characters with no ties to the canvas constantly and makes them the stars of the show, that's no reason for them disappearing as they have)

(I woulda loved Powell to come out--it could even be some bizarre, and granted controversial, reasoning for him going along with the gang rape--but they've completely ruined his character anyway...)

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There was a journey with Kevin's story that I never sensed with Bianca's. She went on one date with Marcus, got drunk, and then confided in Leo about her experience with Sarah in rehab. The coming out scenes between Bianca and Erica, while somewhat moving (I didn't particularly care for the dialogue or the setup -- sorry), do not a story make as far as I was concerned then and now. The "story" after Bianca initially came out to Leo was all about the build up to How Will Erica React?!? ohmy.gifohmy.gifohmy.gif Everyone else pretty much knew, so there was no real conflict for Bianca to have up until then. Then, from that point on, it was all about Bianca's longing for women that were cockteases. Chaste, lovable, Binks going after Sarah, Laura, Frankie, Maggie... With Erica hating every last young woman that Bianca even looked at. Lather, rinse, repeat from 2000-2003.

I remember Kevin's sense of struggle between coming out and getting his parents and brother's approval, who ultimately rejected him. I remember "Doc Chapman" and the conversion therapy. I remember the mother with hideous hair and clothes loving her son but still being reluctant to accept him back into the family as a homosexual. I remember Kevin and Kelsey and the pressure he felt (and I remember hating Kelsey for that). There were just certain beats that were in the Kevin story that were missed in the Bianca story.

Wow, you just sold the hell out of that Kevin story. I have to go search for clips soon (though I'd rather watch the whole thing from beginning to end -- this is where it sucks that back episodes aren't readily available for watching). Re: Bianca's "loves," I totally agree. Really, no one would have been surprised if Allen's Laura came out. I remember being puzzled as to why the naive little Disney-voice girl was the lesbian and the rough, stoner-looking girl was not. Ignorant, I know, but I was young.

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. I remember being puzzled as to why the naive little Disney-voice girl was the lesbian and the rough, stoner-looking girl was not. Ignorant, I know, but I was young.

It's good to know I wasn't the only one who found it odd, for that simple reason. :lol:

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Just catching up on this thread and would like to add my 2 cents worth re Erica the supa model.

Yes,it was ridiculous that she achieved such success and remained in Pine Valley. I think it would have been better for her to have had some success but then be kicked back down up against the jungle that is NY. Erica could return to PV boasting of success (the evidence would be there-magazine,tv commercial whatever) so she could swan around as a 'star' and spin some story that the falseness of the modelling industry was not for her.

Yet the viewers would know the truth and it would engender some sympathy for the character.Erica would rather be a big fish in a little pond.

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Having Kyle and Fish come out, in that instance was a regression [...].

Here's my problem w/ Kish: if OLTL wanted me to care about their predicament, they could've tied them to characters who I do know and do care about. For example, I could've cared less that Billy Douglas was a closeted gay, but he was Joey's friend, so Joey's concern over the issue mattered to me. Conversely, before their story officially started, Fish was just some Llanview P.D. officer who was good w/ computers; and Kyle was just the dude at the hospital participating in all the DNA shenanigans involving Rex, Gigi, Stacy, Roxy, etc. Would it have killed Frank and Ron to make Fish Nora's cousin, let's say, or Kyle Rex and Natalie's friend from the "old neighborhood"? (The answer: of course, it would, b/c that would take something called "planning," which OLTL doesn't really do anymore.)

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Yes,it was ridiculous that she achieved such success and remained in Pine Valley. I think it would have been better for her to have had some success but then be kicked back down up against the jungle that is NY. Erica could return to PV boasting of success (the evidence would be there-magazine,tv commercial whatever) so she could swan around as a 'star' and spin some story that the falseness of the modelling industry was not for her.

Yet the viewers would know the truth and it would engender some sympathy for the character.Erica would rather be a big fish in a little pond.

But, see, they'd played that story already -- twice. The first time was when Jason Maxwell's murder (and the scandal over their affair) threw a damper on Erica's precious modeling career. The second time was when she came back from Hollywood, defeated and demoralized b/c she'd ended up at a fat farm after her and Tom's marriage had imploded. If Erica's career could have suffered irreversible damage, though, it should've been after Kent Bogard's shooting. She could've mounted a comeback attempt, but the lingering whispers surrounding the scandal would've done her in, forcing her to settle for life as owner and permanent hostess at the Chateau (or something).

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Wow, you just sold the hell out of that Kevin story. I have to go search for clips soon (though I'd rather watch the whole thing from beginning to end -- this is where it sucks that back episodes aren't readily available for watching). Re: Bianca's "loves," I totally agree. Really, no one would have been surprised if Allen's Laura came out. I remember being puzzled as to why the naive little Disney-voice girl was the lesbian and the rough, stoner-looking girl was not. Ignorant, I know, but I was young.

The AMC clips that are being put up week by week with the, umm Hebrew (i think) subtitles just went past the shooting of Michael, so they should be going around there. There used to be GREAT clips of the episodes with Kevin and the evil shrink (who to be fair wasn't played evil--it was really well done) from a soap fan who was documenting all the soap gay storylines but they seem to have disappeared.

When Bianca came out Laura was already nuLaura who was much more of a lipstick lesbian ;)

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Here's my problem w/ Kish: if OLTL wanted me to care about their predicament, they could've tied them to characters who I do know and do care about. For example, I could've cared less that Billy Douglas was a closeted gay, but he was Joey's friend, so Joey's concern over the issue mattered to me. Conversely, before their story officially started, Fish was just some Llanview P.D. officer who was good w/ computers; and Kyle was just the dude at the hospital participating in all the DNA shenanigans involving Rex, Gigi, Stacy, Roxy, etc. Would it have killed Frank and Ron to make Fish Nora's cousin, let's say, or Kyle Rex and Natalie's friend from the "old neighborhood"? (The answer: of course, it would, b/c that would take something called "planning," which OLTL doesn't really do anymore.)

But c'mon! Kyle was the stripper/blackmailer brother of whatshername who in a completely odd turn of events helped Powell do his murders! That didn't make you care??

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