I brought up the muthafuckin' issue, and for that, I truly and humbly apologize.

Whoever thinks its entertaining to watch Big Bad Caleb manhandle Erica the rape survivor and toss her around like a rag doll needs to put down the Harlequin novels. Maybe its just the feminist in me or the fact that I've simply watched television sometime in the last 25 years but the way he treats her like some errant child on a sugar high creeps me the hell out.

Madison to David: "If this is a business meeting, then why are you here?" Tell him girl! Madison is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters.

Edited June 16, 201015 yr by marceline

Madison, the latest judgmental murderer, can sit down.

I brought up the muthafuckin' issue, and for that, I truly and humbly apologize.

Quit being sorry. It was a good issue to discuss. All because it was monopolized by one person's repetitively strident opinion doesn't mean it wasn't worth discussing.

Aww! When all else fails return to desperate CompuServe era attempts at flaming. *ruffles your hair*

Madison, the latest judgmental murderer, can sit down.

If you remove all the judgmental murderers from Pine Valley, the town would consist solely of Emma and that hot waiter at the yacht club. Madison said exactly what I was thinking to David "I'm only here to support my wife" Hayward. Although I would've preferred something more along the lines of "Why don't you go home and wash your wife's panties? And don't forget the Woolite." (cue product placement)

Edited June 16, 201015 yr by marceline

If you remove all the judgmental murderers from Pine Valley, the town would consist solely of Emma and that hot waiter at the yacht club. Madison said exactly what I was thinking to David "I'm only here to support my wife" Hayward. Although I would've preferred something more along the lines of "Why don't you go home and wash your wife's panties? And don't forget the Woolite." (cue product placement)

Don't be strident.

If you remove all the judgmental murderers from Pine Valley, the town would consist solely of Emma and that hot waiter at the yacht club.

And some of us aren't all that sure about Emma. ;-)

How about an arrow for you?

You just click on Multiquote on every single post you want to quote (the button turns green) and then click on Add Reply. And you're done!

Thanks Sylph!

Aww! When all else fails return to desperate CompuServe era attempts at flaming. *ruffles your hair*

No, I was just letting Khan know that it's okay to discuss his own point of view without apology... even if someone acts like a redundant, ghetto shrew. Others might be interested in his opinion. No flaming. Just stating an opinion.

Don't be strident.

Glad to give you a new word for your limited vocabulary -- besides "desperate."

Edited June 16, 201015 yr by R Sinclair

No, I was just letting Khan know that it's okay to discuss his own point of view without apology... even if someone acts like a redundant, ghetto shrew.

He already knows how to act when conversing with you honey.

Glad to give you a new word for your limited vocabulary -- besides "desperate."

Dissing vocabulary? You've graduated from CompuServe to Prodigy flaming. Congratulations. *ruffles your hair*

Deee vs R. Sincliar is truly epic....lol

While I conceded that Jesse or Angie wouldn't be the best choice to take such a stance in such a s/l, neither of them are above the complexities of human personality.

A fancy way of saying "it doesn't matter if it is OOC to make a character act a certain way as long as it serves the contrived plot".

we don't know HOW they would react

Since when?

They're characters with established histories & clear motivations.

Nobody blinks an eye when Erica fights with a romantic rival over a man or Opal gives someone home spun advice.

Now all of the sudden when it comes to doing certain stories what came before all of the sudden becomes arbitrary? Very Pratt of you.

But a person's past isn't a hard-and-fast indicator of their actions in the future, especially when something hits close to home (and yes, especially when we're dealing with fictional characters and fickle writers ). I doubt Lisa ever said anything overtly racist, but miscegenation was obviously a trigger for her. I understand the fear of character assassination but just *maybe* there are times when the writers are trying to address a larger issue in a more powerful way by implementing a beloved character.

So then why is the conversation limited to how Jesse would react & not how Adam or David or Tad or any of AMC's other Father's would act?

Because we're talking about black people!

If that's what you want to believe then that's what you do.

Maybe it hasn't been your experience, but you should know that homophobia is alive, well, and unapologetic among a great deal of black men in America. Though it is no surprise to me as I've seen and heard a lot of it from friends, relatives and strangers, in real life and on the net, I am hardly the first person to address this issue.

Who said that?

The same black folks who criticized Chris Rock for telling our business in his hair movie, the same black folks who wouldn't want white people knowing that they don't let their children play out in the sun for too long. Dirty little truths.

OLTL run by a bunch of Middle Aged White People felt the need to thrust an entire group of middle aged white homophobes into their recent coming out story which in turn made it even more cliche.

I was speaking about the seemingly more intelligent viewing audience but I see what you mean.

Again. Which is different than homophobia in White Churches how?/The only thing different is the music.

Well, that's one difference. Homophobia is homophobia, agreed. However, it rears its ugly head in different ways in the black church, and if the largest black Pentecostal denomination in the world (where young boys are being seduced by church elders) and the largest black gospel music organization in the world (where gay church goers are going to hook up and *groom* young artists) can begin to fess up to the secrecy, the duplicity, the hypocrisy, I think we all can too. Homosexuality is one of the biggest, oddest open secrets in the black church where gays are embraced for their talents and their tithes and derided for their "sin" all at the same time... congregations, choirs, and pulpits chock full o' gay black men all the while preaching fire and brimstone for "sissies". These same gay black people enthusiastically shouting "Amen!" and "Hallelujah!", in effect, condemning themselves. If you're interested, here are some articles that better illuminate what I'm trying to explain:

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Homophobia,_Hypermasculinity_and_the_US_Black_Church.pdf

http://www.qrd.org/qrd/www/culture/black/articles/gospel.html

http://rodonline.typepad.com/Articles/TONEX.pdf

Then you're not writing individuals, you're writing tokens just as much as AMC (and Daytime as a whole) is now.

Tokenism has nothing to do with it, I'm talking about cultural differences, and we have them. Victoria Rowell wanting to do a story about black women and hair, I don't consider that a token's story.

SOME Black People are homophobic like SOME White People.

The end.

Only the beginning. There are religious and social underpinnings to the pervasiveness of homophobia in the black community that aren't identical to those of the white community. We have only to look back at the black man's place in this white man's country, from its very start up to present day where homophobia is one the last remaining bastions of "condoned" prejudice.

Again, not saying that this stance is the "right" one for a Jesse or an Angie, but if a black TV character was written as having these beliefs I think it would be an accurate depiction and a socially responsible aspect of the story.

Deee vs R. Sincliar is truly epic....lol

One person's epic is another's pointless.