20 hours ago, chrisml said:

I do think people are making light of what Monique did. I've read endless "I hope she got Candaice good," "Candaice deserved a whipping," "Keep it up Monique! Punch Gizelle!" I found that mindset deeply troubling. I think some people are excusing Monique because of who she attacked. If it had been Karen, would people be so quick to excuse her actions?? I know I'm in a losing battle with this point since most of the people on this board are pro-Monique, but I think what Monique did was horrible. When you are so angry that you black out, have to be restrained, and then run off to kill someone, you need serious help. In real life, I would never feel safe around someone like that. KAren and Ashley were always going to side with Monique and Gizelle and Robin were going to side against Monique. I don't see why one standpoint is more troubling than the other.

 

I'm not a Candaice fan, so this isn't about her at all. I look sideways at her since the tweets, but if Denise could keep her cool and not punch anyone in the coven, Monique could restrain herself. Am I wrong, or wasn't Monique in a drunk driving incident and it was reported that she had lied about it? Or was it another Potomac housewife? Now we know Monique lied about giving the information to the blogs. I also think anything Monique brings to the reunion about JAmal is going to be redundant. We all know he's scum. Nothing could be as devastating as what Gizelle's father said. 

 

I can see that standing your ground regarding Monique means a lot to you. Respectfully, I would argue that some of the opinions expressed on here about the fight have been more nuanced. Like @Antoyne, I believe they are both at fault of riling each other up and totally acknowledge that Monique should not have gotten physical.

 

I give production credit the last two episodes for showing the altercation in its entirety, without commentary, and for devoting an entire episode on Sunday to the other women confronting Monique on what she did. We were treated like grown-ups for once and allowed to make up our own minds without (so far) undue influence on the part of editors and producers. 

 

You are right -- I am somewhat biased re: Candiace. My POV is that Candiace has decided that her SL this season is going to be Let's Bring Down Monique, hence her aligning with Charrisse, who spread the baby rumor, and with Gizelle who is looking to get Monique out. And Candiace can be an annoying barking chihuahua who thinks they are a rottweiler.

 

Candiace has been trying to deal with her anger issues, though, and she did not give in to her worst physical impulses in this fight. However, she has been taunting Monique for a while now, and that has to be pointed out -- not as an excuse for Monique's fisticuffs, but as a factor behind why things spiraled. As Sunday's episode broke down, there were hands to the face, Gizelle's little shove of Monique, some waving wine glasses. Neither party covered themselves in glory.

 

A week after the fight, neither Monique nor Candiace feel they are fundamentally in the wrong. That is problematic. As Wendy pointed out, Monique regretted her actions but was not remorseful. Clearly it is too early. When this initially all went down, it took a couple of months before both parties dropped their lawsuits/charges against each other.

 

Won't deny that Monique needs help. Monique has undirected rage towards her husband; Gizelle; Charrisse; and Candiace. What's more, Monique refuses to confront them. Therefore, things fester to the point of implosion. Monique is easy to rile up and takes things personally. She is highly competitive and wants to be Top Dog, with the houses, wealth, successful business ventures, successful marriage, children, etc. She is piling extra pressure on herself to maintain this image.

 

(Candiace needs counseling too, because that [!@#$%^&*] with her mom is some straight up abusive nightmare. Candiace and Monique are a lot alike actually. Maybe too alike to ever be friends again).

 

On 10/5/2020 at 8:28 AM, Taoboi said:

KAREN. God, she is going through it. And I could see it. Your two close friends falling out and trying to stay neutral. Understandable. And Candiace is already trying to make her choose. And I love that Karen has enough backbone to be...I am here for both of you, but don't try me. lol.  And as usual, she saw through Gizelle easily. She also got Robyn together quickly when she wanted to shame Karen for having Monique's back. But at the same time, she did hold Monique accountable. And she did it all with grace. She even treated the bodyguard well while making sure he knew he was not part of this conversation whether he was there or not. 

 

GIZELLE. Four years. You worked on that speech for four years and it STILL fell flat. I liked that Monique saw you for what you were in that speech, saw you were trying for a moment, and dismissed you easily with no fandom. LOL!!! And then she talked about image. You? Image? When you are dating MR. CHOCOLATE???  No wonder Twitter is dragging you. And to add on that...not that you done PO Monique, Monique is about to air you out to dry at the reunion per her revelations on WWHL and I AM HERE FOR THAT. 

 

 

My love for Karen knows no bounds. She is literally my favourite RH across all the franchises.

 

She has been accused of favoring Monique, but I think it's too early to make that judgment. Candiace was not there in person and we couldn't see how Karen would have handled it had she been. Karen tried to offer a safe space to Monique in which to express herself, and I think she would have done the same for 'Candy.' And if she feels empathy for Monique, it's because she sees the forces of Gizelle and Robyn aligning against her, and doesn't want to leave Monique floundering. 

 

It was such a simple episode -- production really let that story breathe and hit all the beats. Which is why Gizelle's shenanigans stuck out like a sore thumb. Ridiculous self-production and a straight rip-off of Kenya. I couldn't stand the way she rolled her eyes, pretended to text, and then when she launched into her rehearsed speech, basically got high off the sound of her own voice. I don't believe she or Robyn are personally offended by this fight at all. Robyn continues giggling through half of this. 

 

And that BS about her and Mr. KnockUpSomeChocolate protecting their images -- Why is Bravo still trying to make this loser happen? I hope Twitter dragged her good.

 

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I feel happy that Kelly will get edited to show her true nature this year on OC.  With Vicki and Tamra gone, she can't hide behind them anymore

 

 

I sure hope so. The previews of the upcoming season are surprisingly light and fluffy regarding Kelly.  

Edited October 6, 20205 yr by Cat

4 minutes ago, Cat said:

 

I can see that standing your ground regarding Monique means a lot to you. Respectfully, I would argue that some of the opinions expressed on here about the fight have been more nuanced. Like @Antoyne, I believe they are both at fault of riling each other up and totally acknowledge that Monique should not have gotten physical.

 

I appreciate you and @Taoboi responding in kind. I think it's important to have discussions like this in a positive way even when we disagree. I think why the fight bothers me so much is the unspoken idea that a mouthy woman deserves to get popped. That to me is what is behind a lot of the pro-Monique tweets/comments I've seen. I'm not suggesting all obviously, but this whole "she deserved to get her butt whupped" or "Where I come from, we'd have knocked her teeth in" is disgusting. I'm sure if the people who say these things would have to acknowledge what this really means and what it supports, they might not say it in that way, but they still said those things. I'm unnerved by that kind of thinking.

 

I also think you pinpointed why I blame Monique. She has a lot of rage, and it's not just at Candaice. IT's at so many people and you can see even in her scenes with Chris that she has a lot of anger. I don't think anything Candaice said/did had anything to do with that fight. Monique came in there hot, and she wanted to fight. Did Candaice make it better? No, but in the past few episodes, Candaice had done everything she should have done. She even handled the Ashley situation with discretion and tact. She apologized to Monique repeatedly even about stuff that she shouldn't have apologized for. Do I like Candaice? Eh. As a gay man, she's not one of my faves. I'm suspicious of her. I think what also makes me suspicious of Monique is that she lied about the fight, lied about the blogs, and she continues to misrepresent things. IF you're not going to be honest about why you attacked someone (the rumor), I don't care about you. We all know she planted the stories. You wrote something that is very true. Candaice and Monique are very much alike.

 

I will say that I think Chris is one of the better housewife husbands, but I don't feel much affection between Chris and Monique. 

 

3 hours ago, Cheap21 said:

Someone needs to tell her that this isnt the hill to die on

 

 

2 hours ago, Cat said:

 

I can see that standing your ground regarding Monique means a lot to you. Respectfully, I would argue that some of the opinions expressed on here about the fight have been more nuanced. Like @Antoyne, I believe they are both at fault of riling each other up and totally acknowledge that Monique should not have gotten physical.

 

I give production credit the last two episodes for showing the altercation in its entirety, without commentary, and for devoting an entire episode on Sunday to the other women confronting Monique on what she did. We were treated like grown-ups for once and allowed to make up our own minds without (so far) undue influence on the part of editors and producers. 

 

You are right -- I am somewhat biased re: Candiace. My POV is that Candiace has decided that her SL this season is going to be Let's Bring Down Monique, hence her aligning with Charrisse, who spread the baby rumor, and with Gizelle who is looking to get Monique out. And Candiace can be an annoying barking chihuahua who thinks they are a rottweiler.

 

Candiace has been trying to deal with her anger issues, though, and she did not give in to her worst physical impulses in this fight. However, she has been taunting Monique for a while now, and that has to be pointed out -- not as an excuse for Monique's fisticuffs, but as a factor behind why things spiraled. As Sunday's episode broke down, there were hands to the face, Gizelle's little shove of Monique, some waving wine glasses. Neither party covered themselves in glory.

 

A week after the fight, neither Monique nor Candiace feel they are fundamentally in the wrong. That is problematic. As Wendy pointed out, Monique regretted her actions but was not remorseful. Clearly it is too early. When this initially all went down, it took a couple of months before both parties dropped their lawsuits/charges against each other.

 

Won't deny that Monique needs help. Monique has undirected rage towards her husband; Gizelle; Charrisse; and Candiace. What's more, Monique refuses to confront them. Therefore, things fester to the point of implosion. Monique is easy to rile up and takes things personally. She is highly competitive and wants to be Top Dog, with the houses, wealth, successful business ventures, successful marriage, children, etc. She is piling extra pressure on herself to maintain this image.

 

(Candiace needs counseling too, because that [!@#$%^&*] with her mom is some straight up abusive nightmare. Candiace and Monique are a lot alike actually. Maybe too alike to ever be friends again).

 

 

My love for Karen knows no bounds. She is literally my favourite RH across all the franchises.

 

She has been accused of favoring Monique, but I think it's too early to make that judgment. Candiace was not there in person and we couldn't see how Karen would have handled it had she been. Karen tried to offer a safe space to Monique in which to express herself, and I think she would have done the same for 'Candy.' And if she feels empathy for Monique, it's because she sees the forces of Gizelle and Robyn aligning against her, and doesn't want to leave Monique floundering. 

 

It was such a simple episode -- production really let that story breathe and hit all the beats. Which is why Gizelle's shenanigans stuck out like a sore thumb. Ridiculous self-production and a straight rip-off of Kenya. I couldn't stand the way she rolled her eyes, pretended to text, and then when she launched into her rehearsed speech, basically got high off the sound of her own voice. I don't believe she or Robyn are personally offended by this fight at all. Robyn continues giggling through half of this. 

 

And that BS about her and Mr. KnockUpSomeChocolate protecting their images -- Why is Bravo still trying to make this loser happen? I hope Twitter dragged her good.

 

 

I sure hope so. The previews of the upcoming season are surprisingly light and fluffy regarding Kelly.  

I agree. I also feel that if it had been Candiace, Karen would have been doing the same thing for her with a safe space and calling Monique to give a headsup. Karen so far has been nothing, but neutral.

 

See? That (re: Robyn giggling) is why while the ladies made good points I do not feel they were coming from a good place. And we know Gizelle wasn't so...*druwinters*lint*druwinters*

 

Oh...Twitter got her (and Robyn) together realllllllll good that night. 

 

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

I appreciate you and @Taoboi responding in kind. I think it's important to have discussions like this in a positive way even when we disagree. I think why the fight bothers me so much is the unspoken idea that a mouthy woman deserves to get popped. That to me is what is behind a lot of the pro-Monique tweets/comments I've seen. I'm not suggesting all obviously, but this whole "she deserved to get her butt whupped" or "Where I come from, we'd have knocked her teeth in" is disgusting. I'm sure if the people who say these things would have to acknowledge what this really means and what it supports, they might not say it in that way, but they still said those things. I'm unnerved by that kind of thinking.

 

I also think you pinpointed why I blame Monique. She has a lot of rage, and it's not just at Candaice. IT's at so many people and you can see even in her scenes with Chris that she has a lot of anger. I don't think anything Candaice said/did had anything to do with that fight. Monique came in there hot, and she wanted to fight. Did Candaice make it better? No, but in the past few episodes, Candaice had done everything she should have done. She even handled the Ashley situation with discretion and tact. She apologized to Monique repeatedly even about stuff that she shouldn't have apologized for. Do I like Candaice? Eh. As a gay man, she's not one of my faves. I'm suspicious of her. I think what also makes me suspicious of Monique is that she lied about the fight, lied about the blogs, and she continues to misrepresent things. IF you're not going to be honest about why you attacked someone (the rumor), I don't care about you. We all know she planted the stories. You wrote something that is very true. Candaice and Monique are very much alike.

 

I will say that I think Chris is one of the better housewife husbands, but I don't feel much affection between Chris and Monique. 

 

I also appreciate a good discussion as well. And I definitely needed a distraction from the shanannigans in DC so thank you for that. I have been finding it interesting the nuances over the whole thing myself. It is a shame we couldn't have this much discussion over BH for example where it was clear who the mean girls were. 

 

JAmal Bryant is a disgusting human being in so many ways. I'm not surprised about the gay marriage thing. I hope Gizelle would speak out against this as Porsha did about her preaching against gay men. If Gizelle wants to keep her job, I'm sure she'll give lip service to gay rights the way Porsha did when her controversy broke out.

19 hours ago, chrisml said:

I appreciate you and @Taoboi responding in kind. I think it's important to have discussions like this in a positive way even when we disagree. I think why the fight bothers me so much is the unspoken idea that a mouthy woman deserves to get popped. That to me is what is behind a lot of the pro-Monique tweets/comments I've seen. I'm not suggesting all obviously, but this whole "she deserved to get her butt whupped" or "Where I come from, we'd have knocked her teeth in" is disgusting. I'm sure if the people who say these things would have to acknowledge what this really means and what it supports, they might not say it in that way, but they still said those things. I'm unnerved by that kind of thinking.

 

I also think you pinpointed why I blame Monique. She has a lot of rage, and it's not just at Candaice. IT's at so many people and you can see even in her scenes with Chris that she has a lot of anger. I don't think anything Candaice said/did had anything to do with that fight. Monique came in there hot, and she wanted to fight. Did Candaice make it better? No, but in the past few episodes, Candaice had done everything she should have done. She even handled the Ashley situation with discretion and tact. She apologized to Monique repeatedly even about stuff that she shouldn't have apologized for. Do I like Candaice? Eh. As a gay man, she's not one of my faves. I'm suspicious of her. I think what also makes me suspicious of Monique is that she lied about the fight, lied about the blogs, and she continues to misrepresent things. IF you're not going to be honest about why you attacked someone (the rumor), I don't care about you. We all know she planted the stories. You wrote something that is very true. Candaice and Monique are very much alike.

 

I will say that I think Chris is one of the better housewife husbands, but I don't feel much affection between Chris and Monique. 

 

 

One of the things I appreciate about Potomac is that it has enabled discussion of the fight beyond Team So-and-So. There are a lot of complexities to process. This is why RHOP is the best RH show by a country mile. And we are always going to agree to disagree at some point on this thread! 

 

As a female, I don't think any woman, mouthy or otherwise, should get popped (!). If they are running their mouth, crying wolf or spreading lies, they do need to get called and held accountable, though. I think what this fight ultimately showed me is how Monique lost her position of moral superiority by getting physical. What Candiace said or did in the months leading up to do this is now overshadowed and, possibly, unimportant, because Monique resorted to fists. Candiace fancies herself some kind of drama queen, so I fully expect her to milk her victim status. That is going to irritate the sh*t out of me, but she can do this -- to an extent(!) -- because Monique crossed a line, and that is taking up all the oxygen in the room.

 

17 hours ago, Taoboi said:

I also appreciate a good discussion as well. And I definitely needed a distraction from the shanannigans in DC so thank you for that. I have been finding it interesting the nuances over the whole thing myself. It is a shame we couldn't have this much discussion over BH for example where it was clear who the mean girls were. 

 

That's because BH was trying to force an agenda down our throats and it failed miserably. It's a little like Frons/Guza on GH trying to force the audience to adore Sonny/Jason/Carly, and doing it by tearing down the other characters. Bravo isn't quite that way -- once the network recognizes which way an audience is going, it usually pivots accordingly and tries to profit from the shift. 

 

13 hours ago, chrisml said:

JAmal Bryant is a disgusting human being in so many ways. I'm not surprised about the gay marriage thing. I hope Gizelle would speak out against this as Porsha did about her preaching against gay men. If Gizelle wants to keep her job, I'm sure she'll give lip service to gay rights the way Porsha did when her controversy broke out.

 

Not just that, but one of Gizelle's closest confidants, who is basically like family, is Kal. I bet he feels a certain way about Pastor Sleezy's comments.

 

Gizelle may want to secure her financial future with proceeds from Jamal's megachurch. However, if she wants that steady Bravo cheque, she will have to make some kind of statement about how she's not like her gross babydaddy.

Edited October 7, 20205 yr by Cat

Lolwut 

 

 

5 hours ago, Cat said:

 

One of the things I appreciate about Potomac is that it has enabled discussion of the fight beyond Team So-and-So. There are a lot of complexities to process. This is why RHOP is the best RH show by a country mile. And we are always going to agree to disagree at some point on this thread! 

 

As a female, I don't think any woman, mouthy or otherwise, should get popped (!). If they are running their mouth, crying wolf or spreading lies, they do need to get called and held accountable, though. I think what this fight ultimately showed me is how Monique lost her position of moral superiority by getting physical. What Candiace said or did in the months leading up to do this is now overshadowed and, possibly, unimportant, because Monique resorted to fists. Candiace fancies herself some kind of drama queen, so I fully expect her to milk her victim status. That is going to irritate the sh*t out of me, but she can do this -- to an extent(!) -- because Monique crossed a line, and that is taking up all the oxygen in the room.

 

 

That's because BH was trying to force an agenda down our throats and it failed miserably. It's a little like Frons/Guza on GH trying to force the audience to adore Sonny/Jason/Carly, and doing it by tearing down the other characters. Bravo isn't quite that way -- once the network recognizes which way an audience is going, it usually pivots accordingly and tries to profit from the shift. 

 

 

Not just that, but one of Gizelle's closest confidants, who is basically like family, is Kal. I bet he feels a certain way about Pastor Sleezy's comments.

 

Gizelle may want to secure her financial future with proceeds from Jamal's megachurch. However, if she wants that steady Bravo cheque, she will have to make some kind of statement about how she's not like her gross babydaddy.

That's another thing to consider.

 

I know I've said this before but I will probably have to say it again...On one hand...up until the fight, Candiace had been doing good so far this season. She had shown so much growth. Not letting people run over her without being over the top in that first dinner that started the season (though still shady by inviting Charise), apologizing to Ashley and talking woman to woman rather than making it a show, and not letting Monique get to her when Monique was coming for her leading up to the fight. Other than the hot mic moment after the first dinner there was not much of the old Candiace. 

 

On the other hand...Monique has showed she was probably over the last few seasons getting in over her head as a Housewife with too many irons in the fire. Relatable as she always was, but yeah, showing a bit of wear and tear. Keeping up an image (hmmm...sounding kinda like Candiace with keeping up with the Jones as you said, Cat and I feel Daytime Fan also said once they are very much alike...so no wonder they became fast friends...how I long for the days of Team Young Bucks vs Team Old Broads of Season 3 lol) too a fault. We the audience were not supposed to know about the rumor. But those of us online and keeping up on IG LIVEs knew about it. And it felt like she was getting it from all ends keeping up that image. And now she was hurt by her close friends who was not acknowledging the thing we were not suppose to acknowledge on air. And all it needed was a push.

 

Pun intended.  Cuz Gizelle did that. 

 

Again, there are so many layers here. And I could go on for hours. But that's what has made it interesting. Funny how a simple fight turned into an examination of dynamics, two women who are quite alike, and how it all could effect a group. 

 

And yeah...even now I can admit that I do find it hard at times to think about how we got here post-fight. Well, okay, not sure if they would have only talked like Monique wanted to at the first dinner. Or Candiace kept with her growth and decided to keep on the big girl pants and do a one on one with Monique like she did Ashley. I definitely feel Candiace is going to make it hard for me to be in her corner going forward because I am already annoyed (though I understand) at her trying to make Karen pick sides. And not acknowledging her fault or owning any of the fight is annoying me. As do the previews of what's coming. It annoys me because she was growing and I feel she's regressing. I could be wrong. So I can benefit of the doubt easily. Monique has a way to go as well, but at least it appears she will show us that journey. And I want to see that journey. All of this...the breakdown of a friendship...feels very real to me and I would love to see how they get past it if at all with all the vultures (*cough*green-eyes*cough*) around. 

 

I could almost believe you on Bravo. Then I go online and see Jax still on VPR allegedly, Erika being kept in some form to be determined allegedly (with a rumored POC housewife coming), and then all the Kelly Dodd now trying to save face stuff...not to mention the non-HW stuff like allegedly keeping (and currently filming) the bad apples on BELOW DECK MED like they are the Coven on BH and I do wonder. Profit they will...but at what cost?

Its official!

 

 

Looks like she's friends with Leah and will be introduced through her

23 minutes ago, Cheap21 said:

Its official!

 

 

Looks like she's friends with Leah and will be introduced through her

Cool. I also think she knows Sonja as well. So a step in the right direction again with someone who knows some of the girls. 

 

ETA...see? If she was truly old school, I knew it would hit eventually...

 

 

Edited October 7, 20205 yr by Taoboi

2 hours ago, Faulkner said:

Lolwut 

 

 

 

Dear God. This is gonna be a mess. 

 

I have a STRONG feeling one of those women is Porsha...

 

RHONY Hive: 

 

The article includes an interview with Eboni so this is officialI LOVE Eboni! She’s a lawyer and journalist who for years worked on Fox News. She’s a very outspoken democrat. She current works for Revolt Tv. She should be on The View, but this I will take. She’s very classy and smart and very outspoken. The ladies will definitely have a time with her!

Here’s an interview with her, then one of many clips of her eviscerating these idiots on Fox News, which she left after death threats after Charlottesville  

 

 

Edited October 8, 20205 yr by Chris B

Another woman of color on RHONY? YES! Ramona must be seething

So does this mean we have 2 black housewives coming?  That's great!