She just said to Jason the other day that she wasn't being a hypocrite because she knew she had done wrong as well, but she was glad to see people see Liz for what she has done too. That's admitting her wrong doing. But even if she hadn't, the show tells us that Carly schemes ,plans and intends to do wrong (or at least it used to. I can't remember the last time Carly schemed).

Yeah, but Carly wasn't running to Jason to tell him about Liz because she wanted to point out how Liz makes mistakes just like her. She did it because she wanted to ruin Liz in Jason's eyes -- and that would leave her as the sole female who counts in Jason's life. Yes, I know there is Sam but I'm sure Carly would be quite happy to elbow her out of the picture, too. It's always been about Jason for Carly.

Edited February 2, 201015 yr by Cat

i LOVE her so very much, but its true. I have no issue with that. For me being a fan doesnt = making up excuses. I accept my faves, flaws and all.

As for lulu, really? this bitch is passing judgement? Dillion. Georgie. Diego. Abortion. Shall i go on? Ok.. lying to lucky? keeping Liz/Jason a secret? Shall i keep going?

Please. Nothing LuLu has done compares with what Liz has done. Having an abortion was her right, as far I'm concerned there is nothing wrong with that. Yes, she certainly wronged Georgie and Dillon, but she was a teenager. She admitted her mistake, learned from it and moved on. Yes, keeping Liz's secret was a mistake which never really made sense, but at least her intention was good.

Liz on the other hand got involved with a hitman, when she already had a child and was a grown woman who should have the sense to put the safety of her children first. Then she lied to Lucky about being a father. Am I really supposed to think an abortion is worse than manipulating a man into thinking he has a baby when he doesn't? Well, I don't. Not by a long shot. And let's not forget she tried to do the same thing to Ric, but he saw the bitch coming a mile away.

Lucky was in rehab when Liz got pregnant with Jason's baby. She could have told him in a safe environment with a counselor there to help, but she didn't because Liz was protecting her own pathetic ass as usual. Then Liz, again a mother of two and over 30 takes up with her finance's brother. Lucky tried to break off the relationship and she proposed to him, because she just has to have her cake and eat it too. All the while lying over and over every time he asks if something is wrong. There is no way that one mistake as a teenager compares to all this.

Lucky was in rehab when Liz got pregnant with Jason's baby. She could have told him in a safe environment with a counselor there to help, but she didn't because Liz was protecting her own pathetic ass as usual. Then Liz, again a mother of two and over 30 takes up with her finance's brother. Lucky tried to break off the relationship and she proposed to him, because she just has to have her cake and eat it too. All the while lying over and over every time he asks if something is wrong. There is no way that one mistake as a teenager compares to all this.

what I hated about that was at the same time, Maxie was lying about being pregnant with Lucky's baby. Liz went after her good and was determined to expose her lie. She really ripped into Maxie about letting Lucky beleive she was having his kid and called her out as a lying, manipulative skank, when Liz herself cheated, and was lying to Lucky about having his kid. BUT it was okay for her to do all this bc she was protecting him from using drugs This blatent hypoceiay when she applies rules to herself which have annoyed me about her for a long time. She is so quick to rip into and look down on those she views as the evil sluts all while elevating herself as some type of martyr saint. Really she is no different than them. She hides behind this fall image that people have of her being an angel and the sad thing is she actually believes the BS. At leat Carly knows she's a selfish bitch and doesnt pretend to be anything but

Lucky was in rehab when Liz got pregnant with Jason's baby. She could have told him in a safe environment with a counselor there to help, but she didn't because Liz was protecting her own pathetic ass as usual.

That's part of my issue with the reactions. If Liz hasn't changed, then why are people like Lulu now so appalled?

You may have found this amusing, but I didn't in the least bit.

This just further goes to add to the stereotypical nature of the Epiphany character. The only thing black people are good for is yelling, bossing other people around, being fat and lazy, while listening in on people's private conversations and popping their eyes out like some 50's Looney Toons black caricature.

You might find this amusing, but I find it embarrassing and bad. Maybe some black people enjoy seeing the only black character on a TV show portrayed like this, but count me out.

I know Sonya Eddy's gotta pay the bills, but I think, of all the days I've watched GH, I don't think I've seen her once try to step outside the box the writers have given her. Had she done that, she probably would have been dismissed or recast probably. She's perfectly fine playing this token stereotype.

Amy Vining, IIRC, at least had cute outfits, didn't yell at everyone, and didn't boss everyone around. But since your GH watching experience extends to the Jimmy Carter presidency, feel free to correct me.

Reagan, not Carter.

You are absolutely right about Sonya Eddy's character being a stereotype even if I found it amusing. When she joined the show, I believe it was the NY Times that did an article on the state of black female roles in TV and film, and discussed the fact that to this day Hattie Mcdaniel and "Mammy" casts a large shadow. It was an interesting article going on about the huffing, puffing and grousing, the willingness of society to watch overweight black women but not overweight white (and we see this year after year on American Idol), and every angle on cliche black women. That said, I found it a funny bit.

Amy Vining was accorded less respect than Epiphany, just a gossipy silly girl the entire hospital tolerated because they liked her. I don't think there was a single doctor or nurse on staff who at one point didn't lecture Amy on her nosey ways.

Edited February 2, 201015 yr by quartermainefan

That's part of my issue with the reactions. If Liz hasn't changed, then why are people like Lulu now so appalled?

bc she hasnt changed. After all the crap Liz has done before and what she and Lucky went through, one would have thought things would be different this time with them both learning from their mistake. Lulu trusted her and Liz acted like things would be better now bc she and Lucky had both grown, changed and were going to move forward. Lucky changed and he's been doing his best to be a better man and do right by Liz and the kids. Liz? Not so much. She's fallen back into her old pattern and this time its worse than with Jason bc she only slept with him once. She's been having a full blown affair with Nikolas and the fact that its Lucky's brother makes it harder to get over. Lulu has to watch the 2 brothers that she loves fight and hate each other and she sees Liz at the root of her family turmoil

bc she hasnt changed. After all the crap Liz has done before and what she and Lucky went through, one would have thought things would be different this time with them both learning from their mistake. Lulu trusted her and Liz acted like things would be better now bc she and Lucky had both grown, changed and were going to move forward. Lucky changed and he's been doing his best to be a better man and do right by Liz and the kids. Liz? Not so much. She's fallen back into her old pattern and this time its worse than with Jason bc she only slept with him once. She's been having a full blown affair with Nikolas and the fact that its Lucky's brother makes it harder to get over. Lulu has to watch the 2 brothers that she loves fight and hate each other and she sees Liz at the root of her family turmoil

Has any of this been shown onscreen? Lulu saying Liz has always thought of herself of an angel doesn't suggest Lulu had faith in Liz and Liz let her down. If I was a new viewer I would think Lulu had always hated Liz and was waiting for her to slip up.

what I hated about that was at the same time, Maxie was lying about being pregnant with Lucky's baby. Liz went after her good and was determined to expose her lie. She really ripped into Maxie about letting Lucky beleive she was having his kid and called her out as a lying, manipulative skank, when Liz herself cheated, and was lying to Lucky about having his kid. BUT it was okay for her to do all this bc she was protecting him from using drugs

I'm just waiting for Maxie to hear about this latest news. I hope GH doesn't drop the ball here. I love Maxie's Liz hate. Not that I defend Maxie's behavior during this time period, but I love scheming bad girls on soaps and I want to see the Maxie/Liz rivalry continue.

Yeah, but Carly wasn't running to Jason to tell him about Liz because she wanted to point out how Liz makes mistakes just like her. She did it because she wanted to ruin Liz in Jason's eyes -- and that would leave her as the sole female who counts in Jason's life. Yes, I know there is Sam but I'm sure Carly would be quite happy to elbow her out of the picture, too. It's always been about Jason for Carly.

Of course! But I have no problem with that in the context of the Liz/Carly rivalry. For the most part I think the way Carly tries to elbow everyone else out of Jason's life pretty funny. In the context of the whole show I hate Sonny and Jason more than any other characters though and the way Carly keeps them in her life at the expense of her children makes me ill. Jason ass Josslyn's godfather is sick and proof that Carly will not learn (and Guza will not allow this character to truly mature the way she should as a mother of three whos children have been kidnapped and shot thanks to Jason and Sonny).

Its the obvious agenda involved with it and the sudden turn the story took when JJ came back.

Absolutely, but before JJ came back the very obvious agenda was there to prop Liz and Jason against Lucky, so turn about is fair play as far as I'm concerned. At the same time, I would like to see this show written in a more balanced way. The agenda and pets make this show a shell of what it could be. And it's about to get really disgusting as we watch most of Port Charles prop two would be cop killers or is it three? Did Spin know Jason and Sonny were going to kill Dante? If so he's as guilty as they are in my book.

Has any of this been shown onscreen? Lulu saying Liz has always thought of herself of an angel doesn't suggest Lulu had faith in Liz and Liz let her down. If I was a new viewer I would think Lulu had always hated Liz and was waiting for her to slip up.

Lulu pretty much said all this last week when she attacked Liz in the hospital

Lulu: You talked so much trash about Rebecca. You were all morally outraged over her lies. Turns out you're not only a family-wrecking tramp, you're also a raging hypocrite. And I thought I knew you. I thought you were someone to be admired. I actually believed you when you said that you loved Lucky and you couldn't wait to get remarried and build your sweet little house in the woods and live happily ever after. I totally bought into that four musketeers crap. But it turns out you and Nikolas were really just laughing in Lucky's face.

Elizabeth: It wasn't like --

Lulu: No, shut up! You have no defense. Lucky and Nikolas were more than brothers. They were each other's best friend. And now all that's changed because some cheap little tart had to be the center of everyone's attention. Have you broken enough, Elizabeth? Huh? Bond between two brothers, Lucky's sobriety. Now your kids are losing the only father they've ever known. Have you done enough damage so you can slink into some dark hole somewhere and, I don't know, never show your sorry face again? No, no, I'm sorry. I suppose not. It's too much to hope for. Why would you go and do the decent thing? Well, hey, I still have one brother who hasn't been poisoned by you. Better watch out. She might start crying on your shoulder and make it three for three.

Ethan: All right, Lulu. Lulu, that's enough.

Lulu: I guess your martyr act is still working. [Chuckles] Wow. It's not working with me. I see you for who you really are. You're a lying slut

and earlier in that episode when she talked to Nik

Lulu: ...She presents herself as this shining example of how to live by a work ethic and a moral code, like she's a dedicated mother and dedicated nurse and dedicated to Lucky. But the only thing she was really dedicated to was sneaking around and playing mattress tag with you.

Edited February 2, 201015 yr by Cheap21

But was there ever any indication of this until the script suddenly had her as hating Liz? Based on her behavior up to then, I could have easily believed she would have supported Liz and told Lucky he was pathetic and why would Liz ever want to settle for a boring cop when she could have adventure and a prince.

But was there ever any indication of this until the script suddenly had her as hating Liz? Based on her behavior up to then, I could have easily believed she would have supported Liz and told Lucky he was pathetic and why would Liz ever want to settle for a boring cop when she could have adventure and a prince.

well a few weeks ago Lulu talked to Liz and asked her what was up with her and Nik. Liz flat out lied to her face and made it seem as if it was all Nik's fault for pursuing her as if she wasnt responding. Lulu actually beleived and trusted her which is why she's so pissed off at Liz now

Lulu: Elizabeth, I need to talk to you.

Elizabeth: Oh, actually, I'm on my way to see a patient.

Lulu: This can't wait.

Elizabeth: Okay. What's going on?

Lulu: I saw Lucky last night. And he told me how he overheard Nikolas proclaiming his love to you, and he confronted him on it, and he didn't even try to deny it. Nikolas actually believes that he's in love with you.

Elizabeth: I know, I know, and I feel really bad about the whole thing.

Lulu: That's really good to know, but I'm not concerned about your feelings. Lucky is a different story. Do you realize how flipped out he is about this?

Elizabeth: Okay, thank you for your concern or lack thereof, but, really, this is none of your business.

Lulu: Actually, it is, since Lucky came to me thinking that I was covering for you, again, like the time you cheated on him with Jason.

Elizabeth: But you told him you weren't, 'cause you had no idea what was going on. So, you see, it's completely two different scenarios.

Lulu: Are they?

Elizabeth: I'm not quite sure what you're implying here.

Lulu: No, I'm not either. I've been working this out as we go along and making a lot of mental adjustments in a very short period of time. For example, I've never actually pictured you as some sort of femme fatale before.

Elizabeth: Please. I'm anything but. Come on. You know what a rough time Nikolas has had since Emily died. That's the reason why he glommed onto Rebecca in the first place.

Lulu: And that's--

Elizabeth: She looks exactly like Emily. That's why he's kept her around for so long.

Lulu: So somewhere along the line he just glommed onto you.

Elizabeth: I was the next closest thing to Emily. I am a temporary place for his misdirected emotion.

Lulu: Okay. This seems very logical and clinical, but I'm getting hit by a lot of bad memories of you getting pregnant by Jason and lying about it. And the reason I kept that a secret for so long was because I thought knowing would send Lucky spiraling back into drugs, and I also believed that you and Jason were victims of bad timing. But now here we are again, in a very similar situation with Nikolas. You're not pregnant, are you?

Elizabeth: No, God, of course not.

Lulu: Thank God for that, but do you see where I'm coming from? I--I just think that this is a little to hard to write off as coincidence or as bad timing again. I think that you must be doing something. You're sending signals first to Jason and now to Nikolas that you are available for something more than just friendship.

Elizabeth: What exactly are you saying?

Lulu: I'm saying that consciously or not, you are in a mess of your own making.

Thank you for all the transcripts. I still don't think the show made the change believable, but I appreciate your effort.

This just further goes to add to the stereotypical nature of the Epiphany character. The only thing black people are good for is yelling, bossing other people around, being fat and lazy, while listening in on people's private conversations and popping their eyes out like some 50's Looney Toons black caricature.

I agree to a point, but I love that Epiphany smacks down the hospital staff. They need it and they deserve it. As much as Liz deserved LuLu's smackdown, I was hoping Epiphany would interrupt and tell her the hospital is not the place for it. I root for her every single time she tells someone that they are in a hospital and need to actually focus on their patients instead of their personal lives. I don't see how anyone can think Epiphany is lazy, she's the only person in that place who seems to know they are there to work, unless of course one buys into the stereotype that fat=lazy. I don't.

And as far as the fat thing goes is it worse to have a fat black woman on GH or to have no fat people at all? Should all fat black women be banned from TV because someone things they play into a stereotype? I think its equally or even maybe more offensive that they won't allow a fat white woman on the show. We all know they gave Genie a hard time about her weight back in the day and she wasn't even that big. The show is both sexist and sizist. They are pretty much trying to force feed us the Hollywood ideal of beauty even though it damages the self esteem and body image of their target audience (adolescent girls) and that's something I find way more offensive than watching an overweight black woman tell a bunch of unprofessional people to get back to work.

Thank you for all the transcripts. I still don't think the show made the change believable, but I appreciate your effort.

Maybe not, but I never thought it was believable that LuLu would take Liz and Jason's side over Lucky in the first place, so i don't see how this is any different. Agenda still rules the day, it's just that the tide has shifted in the opposite direction.

I agree to a point, but I love that Epiphany smacks down the hospital staff. They need it and they deserve it. As much as Liz deserved LuLu's smackdown, I was hoping Epiphany would interrupt and tell her the hospital is not the place for it. I root for her every single time she tells someone that they are in a hospital and need to actually focus on their patients instead of their personal lives. I don't see how anyone can think Epiphany is lazy, she's the only person in that place who seems to know they are there to work, unless of course one buys into the stereotype that fat=lazy. I don't.

Who is Epiphany to lecture doctors about what they can or cannot talk about at the nursing station? She is always ready to gossip and chat when she is in the mood. I don't think that she is lazy. I think that she is a bitch who like to bitch out other people when it is none of her damn business.

I do think that she is the stereotypical mammy, but it is the only way that Guza will have an actor of color on GH get any airtime.

Edited February 2, 201015 yr by Ann_SS