23 hours ago, kalbir said:

To me, Roger didn't care about what the rest of Springfield thought of him. The only person who's opinion of him mattered to Roger was Maureen.

To me, of course Roger cared about what Springfield thought about him. The motive for all his power grabs is to show Springfield that he deserves the respect they denied him.

I don't think Roger truly gave a damn about Maureen's opinion. I think he was more amused that Ed's wife didn't automatically consign him to hell. 

 

12 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

I hate when they try to paint both Roger and Holly and Jeva as "Twu Wuv" ...true passion that is going to blow up and hurt the people around them...yes.  I also hated that they had Amanda, who seemed amoral to the core, pine over him. It would have been much better if these two people were using each other for their own ends, and they both know the other would betray them in a second and it turns them on.

Talk of Roger and Holly's "love" makes me squeamish too. Whatever it may have started as, it became obsession. And for the writers to have Vanessa, who knew several women Roger used and discarded (including her daughter and stepdaughter) say that kind of pablum just proved they didn't know their own characters.

Josh and Reva were perpetual teenagers, emotionally stunted by their first go-round and ensuing dysfunctional relationship when she married Billy. Reva is like a wrecking ball to that entire family, and somehow managed to play her victimhood (of not being born into a stable family like the Lewises) to the hilt.

Edited October 16, 20241 yr by P.J.

Just watching the fallout of Ross and Blake's affair, and I just love it when Maureen Garrett's southern drawl comes out, during this storyline it would slip out every now and then lol 

The show was really firing on all cylinders in 1992. 

11 hours ago, P.J. said:

Josh and Reva were perpetual teenagers, emotionally stunted by their first go-round and ensuing dysfunctional relationship when she married Billy. Reva is like a wrecking ball to that entire family, and somehow managed to play her victimhood (of not being born into a stable family like the Lewises) to the hilt.

Ha..I never thought of Jeva being perpetual teenagers...and your right! Maybe that's why a certain segment of the audience (who I would term brain dead but..)was gaga over them the second time around, and why TPTB kept pushing them over other vets..they act like the silly younger characters they wrote for while also saying they used "older" characters. I will say Taggert tried to change that dynamic by having them grow up a bit during the Richard gets the plug pulled storyline. Reva told Josh the truth and he stood by her. I know they got rid of that new found growth during the cancer storyline (Reva hiding the truth and Josh jumping on a new woman to hurt her...) but it was nice while it lasted and I think Zimmer and Newman played it well.

 

57 minutes ago, MichaelGL said:

Just watching the fallout of Ross and Blake's affair, and I just love it when Maureen Garrett's southern drawl comes out, during this storyline it would slip out every now and then lol 

The show was really firing on all cylinders in 1992. 

Sherry Stringfield was magic, wasn't she? I love that she knew when to leave, and to head into primetime with NYPD Blue and then ER. I'm only sorry she never did a return stint to daytime, which I feel like she would've been open to at one point in time. I hope she is doing well.

4 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Maybe that's why a certain segment of the audience [...] was gaga over them the second time around, and why TPTB kept pushing them over other vets..they act like the silly younger characters they wrote for while also saying they used "older" characters.

I think one of the biggest reasons why soaps remain an endangered species is because TPTB refuse to allow characters to mature anymore.  They don't seem to understand that watching characters in their 50s, 60s and 70s do the same, stupid [!@#$%^&*] that they did when they were in their 20s and 30s just doesn't appeal to the average viewer.

Edited October 16, 20241 yr by Khan

Susan Lucci was in her sixties playing a Las Vegas showgirl. The soaps don't want to admit people age (don't know if current soaps are better now). They also think teens won't watch older characters which is markedly false. I remember when Jeanne Cooper placed very high amongst teen viewers in terms of popularity. Yet every summer the soaps would do their obligatory teen storylines that were boring as hell. Even as a teen or younger, I hated most of those stories. GL tried it with the Cam/Harley/Dinah/Alan-Michael story, but it was only AM and Harley that were interesting. I never saw the Beth/Lujack stuff or Simon/Jesse storylines. 

I wish that soaps had created more platonic relationships like the Maureen/Roger relationship. She was the only one who really defended him. His relationship could have softened him when he was in villain mode. Her ties to Roger could have caused more problems for her marriage to Ed and relationships to others. I always felt it a loss that this was never expanded on. Nancy Curlee seemed to feel the same in her interview with Locher. 

11 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Ha..I never thought of Jeva being perpetual teenagers...and your right! Maybe that's why a certain segment of the audience (who I would term brain dead but..)was gaga over them the second time around, and why TPTB kept pushing them over other vets..they act like the silly younger characters they wrote for while also saying they used "older" characters. I will say Taggert tried to change that dynamic by having them grow up a bit during the Richard gets the plug pulled storyline. Reva told Josh the truth and he stood by her. I know they got rid of that new found growth during the cancer storyline (Reva hiding the truth and Josh jumping on a new woman to hurt her...) but it was nice while it lasted and I think Zimmer and Newman played it well.

 

I don't know when maturity got confused with "stale". What both Josh and Reva needed was healthy relationships with other people on their breaks. 

7 hours ago, Khan said:

I think one of the biggest reasons why soaps remain an endangered species is because TPTB refuse to allow characters to mature anymore.  They don't seem to understand that watching characters in their 50s, 60s and 70s do the same, stupid [!@#$%^&*] that they did when they were in their 20s and 30s just doesn't appeal to the average viewer.

Not to mention teens acting like 40yr olds.

7 hours ago, Khan said:

I think one of the biggest reasons why soaps remain an endangered species is because TPTB refuse to allow characters to mature anymore.  They don't seem to understand that watching characters in their 50s, 60s and 70s do the same, stupid [!@#$%^&*] that they did when they were in their 20s and 30s just doesn't appeal to the average viewer.

 

22 minutes ago, chrisml said:

Susan Lucci was in her sixties playing a Las Vegas showgirl. The soaps don't want to admit people age (don't know if current soaps are better now). They also think teens won't watch older characters which is markedly false. I remember when Jeanne Cooper placed very high amongst teen viewers in terms of popularity. Yet every summer the soaps would do their obligatory teen storylines that were boring as hell. Even as a teen or younger, I hated most of those stories. GL tried it with the Cam/Harley/Dinah/Alan-Michael story, but it was only AM and Harley that were interesting. I never saw the Beth/Lujack stuff or Simon/Jesse storylines. 

I didn't mind some of the '90s teen stories - I was probably one of the few who was interested in the Hart/Julie relationship, and Bridget/David/Kat was a great group - but they seem to lose their way after that point. Just very generic. Most of the '80s teen groups, aside from Beth/Mindy/Rick/Philip (which wasn't even a group for very long before being torn apart and only having short reunions down the line - not even a full year), also seem bland, and hurt by trying to force couples. Harley and Alan-Michael get by because of the appeal of the actors.

The soaps have backed off severely on showcasing younger characters in the last decade, but the unfortunate side effect has been writing older characters as if they are in their teens or twenties. We started seeing this in the '00s with Victor Newman, Erica Kane, or Adam Chandler still marrying over and over, or Erica still planning to conquer Hollywood at age 65, or on GL, Reva still finding new true loves and having a baby when she was near menopause. 

Regarding platonic friendships, I did like that Reva was allowed to have them with Buzz and Philip (when the show remembered in later years), but that wasn't enough. 

17 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

I didn't mind some of the '90s teen stories - I was probably one of the few who was interested in the Hart/Julie relationship, and Bridget/David/Kat was a great group - but they seem to lose their way after that point. Just very generic. Most of the '80s teen groups, aside from Beth/Mindy/Rick/Philip (which wasn't even a group for very long before being torn apart and only having short reunions down the line - not even a full year), also seem bland, and hurt by trying to force couples. Harley and Alan-Michael get by because of the appeal of the actors.

 

I was shocked to realize that The Four Musketeers period was so brief. Once Beth takes up with Lujack, she's out of the group and then she's dead.

It's too bad they didn't stick with the OG Bill/Michelle/Ben longer. 

11 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I was shocked to realize that The Four Musketeers period was so brief. Once Beth takes up with Lujack, she's out of the group and then she's dead.

It's too bad they didn't stick with the OG Bill/Michelle/Ben longer. 

They lost something special when they didn't at least try. I remember how odd it felt watching Bryan Buffington hanging around Rebecca Budig's visibly older (and dull as hell) Michelle. 

I know The Four Musketeers wouldn't have been the same anyway with Grant Aleksander leaving in late '84, but it's still remarkable how little interest the show had in a dynamic that was loved by a number of viewers. They split up both couples quickly and move all four into different corners. I wonder if this was not a decision Long agreed with (even though she was writer at the time) as she seemed to try to bring them together again when she returned as headwriter.

Edited October 17, 20241 yr by DRW50

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

The soaps don't want to admit people age (don't know if current soaps are better now). They also think teens won't watch older characters which is markedly false. I remember when Jeanne Cooper placed very high amongst teen viewers in terms of popularity.

And Ruth Warrick was popular with younger viewers also. They liked to see those manipulative older characters interfering in the lives of younger characters.

On the flip side benevolent older characters like Alice Horton and Kate Martin were popular because they represented something a lot of viewers didn't have-an accepting wise grandparent who was always there for them.

It's so frustrating to see 80 yr old Victor up to the same tricks as 30 years ago and everyone around being manipulated despite the fact that it's happened countless times before.

And the likes of Victoria Newman falling in love and marrying for the 6th time with no self reflection or personal growth.

14 hours ago, MichaelGL said:

Just watching the fallout of Ross and Blake's affair, and I just love it when Maureen Garrett's southern drawl comes out, during this storyline it would slip out every now and then lol 

The show was really firing on all cylinders in 1992. 

I really think JvD was a crucial part of my youthful… awakening. Man, he was gorgeous.

11 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

They lost something special when they didn't at least try. I remember how odd it felt watching Bryan Buffington hanging around Rebecca Budig's visibly older (and dull as hell) Michelle. 

I know The Four Musketeers wouldn't have been the same anyway with Grant Aleksander leaving in late '84, but it's still remarkable how little interest the show had in a dynamic that was loved by a number of viewers. They split up both couples quickly and move all four into different corners. I wonder if this was not a decision Long agreed with (even though she was writer at the time) as she seemed to try to bring them together again when she returned as headwriter.

Even when she was baby-faced, Budig seems a decade older than Bryan. I suppose we were lucky to have Bryan and Rachel as long as we did.

In some ways, I think it was smart to let the Four go their separate ways. Phillip/Rick/Mindy would always touch base with each other while Beth was dead. Maybe if they hadn't rushed Phillip and Mindy into marriage, they could've played the Four out longer.

11 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Regarding platonic friendships, I did like that Reva was allowed to have them with Buzz and Philip (when the show remembered in later years), but that wasn't enough. 

Reva from her first appearance had guy platonic friends....that hair dresser she worked with (gay coded) played by the guy who was icky Brad on ATWT, but fun here, before he disappeared...Phillip, Fletcher (the only time I liked Fletch was when he was palling around with Reva)Johnny. They dumped all that when Rauch had to make Reva/Kimmer the middle aged sex goddess all men were spell bound iwth.

 

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I know The Four Musketeers wouldn't have been the same anyway with Grant Aleksander leaving in late '84, but it's still remarkable how little interest the show had in a dynamic that was loved by a number of viewers.

I was in college when they broke them up and remember then being annoyed and loosing interest that they took them out of college and relatable kinds of things, to having Phillip at Spaulding seeming about 40 now, Mindy a model, Beth..whatever she was..Rick in "Accelerated Med School," I can't believe they threw all that away.

 

10 hours ago, Faulkner said:

I really think JvD was a crucial part of my youthful… awakening. Man, he was gorgeous.

I said this before but my Poly-Sci professor looked like Ross. Me and the girl who lived a couple floors above me would RUN to class and try to get in the front row..I knew why I was doing it but one day she said..."Doesn't he look just like Ross Marler!!!"  Yea, now get out of the front center seat cause I'm trying to go all Blake on him!

13 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

said this before but my Poly-Sci professor looked like Ross. Me and the girl who lived a couple floors above me would RUN to class and try to get in the front row..I knew why I was doing it but one day she said..."Doesn't he look just like Ross Marler!!!"  Yea, now get out of the front center seat cause I'm trying to go all Blake on him!

Oof. I would have loved to have had a professor who looked like him. JvD was only 42 then, which seemed so old (of course I was in sixth grade), but 42 in 1992 was more like mid-50s today. He had this Paul Newman-esque thing happening. 

He also made challenging scenes feel so effortless. Having to play those levels of a rather douchey Ross trying to put up a lawyerly front while Blake and Holly projected their needs upon him—scolding Blake and trying to reason with Holly—not easy. I loved that era of GL so much.