10 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

I think that Vanessa would be fine in stories with Alan and Ross among others. Perhaps I am biased because I hated the Lewis invasion. 

That's fair. If I'd been watching at the time I might have the same reaction. My first memories of Vanessa were from around 1990, so it was a jolt to go back years later and see her earlier material. There are some moments of cold scheming early on with her I enjoy but it feels like they start taking her in a more hysterical direction once Quint/Nola are a focus. 

@Sapounopera @DRW50 Maeve Kinkead Emmy speech credited Douglas Marland for creating Vanessa and Nancy Curlee for giving Vanessa new life, but no mention of Pamela Long. Maybe Maeve had beef w/ Pamela?

Doug created the character and she won the Emmy for Curlee’s material, so it probably wasn’t a slight at all.

But, I’m also not sure Vanessa was ever one of Long’s favorites either. 

The Billy/Vanessa pairing and integrating Vanessa into the Lewis family was important for her long-term status, but other than that and Little Billy I'm not sure if Long ever did a great deal with the character. (to be fair I think Maeve was not there for a good chunk of Long's second stint) Even the Dinah story, also very important to Vanessa in the long term, only happened after Long's first exit.

3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I feel like the Vanessa pre-Billy couldn't have been viable as a long-term character, although I don't really care for some of what they did with her in that timeframe (like the pill addiction and running over Reva).

From what I've been able to revisit, I think Vanessa did need to be anchored to another family. I love Henry and Vanessa's relationship, but a grown woman can't run around town being besties with her "Daddy" indefinitely  They kind of threw her at everyone when she started. If it was in pants and moved, Vanessa batted her eyes at it. Good grief, she even dated ED. (and not one of the cute Eds, Mart Hulswit's Ed, bless him.) Which they seem to have forgotten by the end of the 80's. 

I don't blame Billy for the shift in Vanessa, I blame Reva. Reva took over the "outrageous vixen" role the minute she stepped into town.  And then I blame Matt. Vanessa caught "brain MIA disease" from him.

1 minute ago, P.J. said:

I blame Reva.  

Maybe to a lesser extent Alexandra as well?

2 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Maybe to a lesser extent Alexandra as well?

That's probably fair. Long wrote for her creations. 

9 minutes ago, P.J. said:

From what I've been able to revisit, I think Vanessa did need to be anchored to another family. I love Henry and Vanessa's relationship, but a grown woman can't run around town being besties with her "Daddy" indefinitely  They kind of threw her at everyone when she started. If it was in pants and moved, Vanessa batted her eyes at it. Good grief, she even dated ED. (and not one of the cute Eds, Mart Hulswit's Ed, bless him.) Which they seem to have forgotten by the end of the 80's. 

I don't blame Billy for the shift in Vanessa, I blame Reva. Reva took over the "outrageous vixen" role the minute she stepped into town.  And then I blame Matt. Vanessa caught "brain MIA disease" from him.

It gets very confusing trying to figure out who she's interested in or involved with in the Marland era, likely because Vanessa was mostly a plot device. There are some entertaining moments where we see her plotting or commenting on the action (like that grainy clip of her with Josh at the disco), but there's also a very degrading tone. I think she would have likely met Diane's fate, or just left the show with no real fanfare.

Ageism was a big culprit for Vanessa's fate in the mid-90s, but I did blame Matt too (and I long held a grudge against that character). I also blame how passive they made her with Dinah, which really diminished her voice. 

I'm not going to act like the show was especially good by that point, but what I've seen of Vanessa in the late '00s feels closer to the woman I remember than the Vanessa of the mid-late '90s who often just seemed cast aside and, once again, vaguely degraded. 

Watching this also makes me realize there is a whole lot of Vanessa's backstory in the early/mid '00s about losing most of her money that I never knew of or paid much attention to (maybe whoever used to write that GL fic for P&G could write a novel on it).

 

14 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Maybe to a lesser extent Alexandra as well?

India too.

I was watching this India and Reva scene the other day. I don’t think many were allowed to really drill into Reva and read her for filth in such a direct way as India did here.

 

 

Edited February 21, 20241 yr by BetterForgotten

5 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

I was watching this India and Reva scene the other day. I don’t think many were allowed to really drill into Reva and read her for filth the way India did here.

Thanks for sharing that. Honestly jumping from India possessed by righteousness and delicious neurotic bitchery (whichever scriptwriter came up with "biological twitchings" deserved every raise in the world) to Warren and John Bolger's Philip makes this the gayest clip in the history of Guiding Light.

  "biological twitchings".... :DEAD:  I'd like to find more early Vanessa/Reva. Later, Vanessa slips into the "too much of a lady" to truly rip Reva a new piehole when she deserved it.

Early Vanessa does seem like a bitch in search of a purpose. It isn't until much later that her old feelings for Ross even seemed sincere. 

On 2/20/2024 at 10:09 PM, DRW50 said:

It gets very confusing trying to figure out who she's interested in or involved with in the Marland era, likely because Vanessa was mostly a plot device. There are some entertaining moments where we see her plotting or commenting on the action (like that grainy clip of her with Josh at the disco), but there's also a very degrading tone. I think she would have likely met Diane's fate, or just left the show with no real fanfare.

 

I wonder if some of that can be chalked up to the exit of Harley Venton's character, Derek Colby? From some of the summaries of GL in 1982 but I can't help but to think Marland had major plans for the character and perhaps Derek and Vanessa were going to be endgame had Marland continued writing for the show (and the show had kept on Derek's character). Pairing up Vanessa's firery vixen character with the straight laced and by the book Derek Colby would've gained quite the following I imagine. 

Edited February 22, 20241 yr by MichaelGL

6 hours ago, MichaelGL said:

I wonder if some of that can be chalked up to the exit of Harley Venton's character, Derek Colby? From some of the summaries of GL in 1982 but I can't help but to think Marland had major plans for the character and perhaps Derek and Vanessa were going to be endgame had Marland continued writing for the show (and the show had kept on Derek's character). Pairing up Vanessa's firery vixen character with the straight laced and by the book Derek Colby would've gained quite the following I imagine. 

I could see that. I liked Derek in what I've seen of him. He was a moral character but with humor as well, and more compelling to me than the traditional leading man. I wish they'd kept him.

Edited February 22, 20241 yr by DRW50

Off-topic, but Harley Venton (a.k.a. Derek Colby) was in serious contention to play David Addison on "Moonlighting."  In fact, it was down to him and Bruce Willis for the part.  Cybill Shepherd actually preferred Venton, too, IIRC, but Glenn Gordon Caron and everyone at ABC agreed (eventually) that she had better chemistry with Willis.

9 hours ago, MichaelGL said:

Pairing up Vanessa's firery vixen character with the straight laced and by the book Derek Colby would've gained quite the following I imagine. 

The problem was...MK is elegant and beautiful and a good actress but she did not give fiery vixen vibes..she worked best as a stuck up elitist to the manor born woman, and that role was taken by Alex. That is why I wish they had put her in Alex's place when the fired Marj (and tried to have Amanda take Alex place) after she came back from the dead.  Her almost death would give her a new lease on life and not want to sit around sighing with Matt or taking Dinah's [!@#$%^&*]. Instead of wasting her time on that dumb internet chat room romance, I would have her see Spaulding raided by Roger and Amanda and Alan too taken with Annie and Phillip doing whatever he was doing, Spaulding on the verge of bankruptcy or a hostile takeover and she gets pissed...so she starts buying up stock and comes back a hell on wheels. She could have been as Spaulding fighting with Amanda and Annie..etc. 

That clip of Wheeler era Van is actually quite good and addressed some issues with Matt that always simmered in the background. Despite the dumbness of someone using a trust fund (that is why the are in trust) and Van not knowing about it and loosing her money...she was kinda old Van there( I love when she tells Dinah to "Be Quiet"...Kinkaid was great as a stone cold woman with a hidden temper.) Did Kreizman fall asleep in the writers room and someone sneak in?