13 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Santa Barbara was created outside the P & G world.. so they had less rules to abide by and they went mad scientist on their creation.   Agnes Nixon had said she created OLTL with ABC because she felt stifled by the P & G world and wanted more freedom to do a soap her way.. and I think Santa Barbara was the same for the Dobsons.

I wonder if that's not disingenuous. ... Well, if Agnes said that it's interesting, of course, but in point of fact, the reason she created OLTL for ABC is because they invited to do a soap for them. Previously she had attempted to sell her AMC bible to P&G & they declined. They also did not solicit her to do a brand new soap for them. But this sense of freedom to write is an excellent point, I think. When the Dobsons went to GL they had a new sense of freedom because that was out from under the thumbs of the Hursleys. Then, of course, the NBC offer was another several degrees of "more freedom" and it may well have gone to their heads. But, I also believe it tapped into their most creative impulses. 

I think had they had a talented/skilled producer like Allen Potter at ATWT (and eventually SB), that gelled with them but was also able to ground their ideas better, those latter stints might have been more cohesive and better executed. 

Regarding the Dobsons at GL and ATWT

They took over GL when it was a half hour show and there were fewer characters and stories to accomodate.

But by the time they took over ATWT it had been an hour show for 5 years and there were many more characters they had to deal with.

It was probably easier for them to make changes at GL than ATWT.

5 hours ago, kalbir said:

I think its safe to say that GL's best EPs in its final 30 years were Allen Potter and Robert Calhoun.

I agree.

5 hours ago, dc11786 said:

I don't think it would have stayed in Five Points. Legally speaking, Irna Phillips isn't the sole creator of "The Guiding Light." Emmons Carlson won a court case in the mid-1940s where he was given a significant share ownership of the original series. I believe the show originally folded in late 1946 in part because Phillips wanted a show that was her own. I believe the court case declared that the intended production move to Los Angeles was halted.  As you probably know, the show is off the air for about seven months between the end of the Five Points era and the start of Selby Flats setting in June, 1947. 

Thank you for reminding me about the Emmons Carlson case and its' aftermath, @dc11786.  I tend to think the court ruled in favor of Carlson on account of his gender.

 

In soaps, nothing is a coincidence, so it seems fitting that I got back into watching, and talking about, the Dobsons' work on GL, we hear about Bridget passing away.  I just wish more of their run was around because so much of what I have seen is top-tier, breathtakingly complex, and engrossing to watch. I often feel that the GL I prefer is messy, wild, mixed with the straight drama (similar to where the show was in the late '80s and early '90s), but somehow Bridget and Jerome got the tone so perfect in their run that they remind me just what a lost artform this more restrained, psychological touch could be.

16 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

In soaps, nothing is a coincidence, so it seems fitting that I got back into watching, and talking about, the Dobsons' work on GL, we hear about Bridget passing away.  I just wish more of their run was around because so much of what I have seen is top-tier, breathtakingly complex, and engrossing to watch. I often feel that the GL I prefer is messy, wild, mixed with the straight drama (similar to where the show was in the late '80s and early '90s), but somehow Bridget and Jerome got the tone so perfect in their run that they remind me just what a lost artform this more restrained, psychological touch could be.

I know you had said one of the things you noticed about Marland's GL was that his ability to write more complex characters, especially the female ones, was not as strong as the Dobsons.

And I think it's because Bridget Dobson was a complex person and because of that, she was able to write very complicated women that people either loved or didn't like... and I don't think Marland could have written them as well because he wasn't a woman and because he seemed to believe that therapy fixed everything.

I think the Dobson's figured that tapping into unresolved issues in their lives was the way to go when writing.. while Marland had a more pragmatic approach to his writing.

Case in point, an example of something the Dobson's wrote for Diane Ballard

There's an episode from 1979 where Diane finds out from Roger about something unethical that Alan did.. and she's tortured by this.  She confides in her good friend Ann about her father.. and how he had disappointed her so much by being an embezzler.  She then went on to say Alan was what she wished her father was like and that if Roger was telling her the truth, she didn't know what she'd do if her image of Alan was tainted.  It was a rare moment of emotion from Diane and a way to show behind the pragmatic nature of Diane was a human being hurt by her parent.

I think that Diane under Marland had less layers and was more of a villainess.. rather then a pragmatic anti-heroine.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I agree.

Thank you for reminding me about the Emmons Carlson case and its' aftermath, @dc11786.  I tend to think the court ruled in favor of Carlson on account of his gender.

It's possible, but Phillips has a history of claiming ownership over things that aren't hers. Orin Tovrov created "The Brighter Day," but she eventually usurped the show from him and proclaimed she had created it so this wouldn't have been unusual. 

Do other genres have as many issues with the issue of creator credits as soaps do? 

 

@Soaplovers That's a good point. Diane is more of a plot device after the Dobsons leave. With the Dobsons there are almost everyone seems to have a motivation and a complicated internal structure.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

As you probably know, the show is off the air for about seven months between the end of the Five Points era and the start of Selby Flats setting in June, 1947. 

Oh no!  Another GL mystery?  Are you really telling us that GL's move from Five Points to Selby Flats took place off-camera (off-radio [since there were no cameras])??  And if so, did any characters actually move?  And did they discuss moving in the scripts?  Or was the show just magically transferred from Five Points to Selby Flats without explanation?    This conversation is like Deja Vu!!

This recent loss enables me to dig back into my dive into the Dobson-era GL I began early in the pandemic. It is fascinating, labyrinthian stuff.

When TGL resumed in June 47 it was acompletely different show, now set in Selby Flats. 

Dr Charles Matthews (Hugh Studebaker) was pastor of Church of Good Samaritan in Selby Flats , an underpriveleged area of LA.

The good doctor's philosophy of life was keynoted in the opening installment by a lamp of friendship delivered to him by a divinity student from Five Points.

'It's the symbol of 'The Guiding Light' says Dr Matthews.Now I know what to say at the state prison.'

The next scene took place at the prison and the new storylines unfolded

I always enjoyed the idea of GL calling back to Reverend Rutledge and the lamp/lighthouse/etc. near the end of the run. I just think the execution of it was very poor. If GL was ever rebooted it would be nice to find a way to tie all these little details together - maybe a location bit or someone's correspondence, or a character from Selby Flats or Five Points, etc.

Just now, Vee said:

I always enjoyed the idea of GL calling back to Reverend Rutledge and the lamp/lighthouse/etc. near the end of the run. I just think the execution of it was very poor. If GL was ever rebooted it would be nice to find a way to tie all these little details together - maybe a location bit or someone's correspondence, or a character from Selby Flats or Five Points, etc.

I agree.

24 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

When TGL resumed in June 47 it was acompletely different show, now set in Selby Flats. 

Dr Charles Matthews (Hugh Studebaker) was pastor of Church of Good Samaritan in Selby Flats , an underpriveleged area of LA.

The good doctor's philosophy of life was keynoted in the opening installment by a lamp of friendship delivered to him by a divinity student from Five Points.

'It's the symbol of 'The Guiding Light' says Dr Matthews.Now I know what to say at the state prison.'

The next scene took place at the prison and the new storylines unfolded

Thanks for that information. I wish your post could somehow get into some of the soap opera history books.  I'm sure 99 percent of GL fans are unaware of the completely different show in 1947.   How coincidental (or down-right strange) that Guiding Light went through two changes of locale during it's history, and it is likely that neither change occurred within the scripted narrative.    

5 minutes ago, Vee said:

I always enjoyed the idea of GL calling back to Reverend Rutledge and the lamp/lighthouse/etc. near the end of the run. I just think the execution of it was very poor. If GL was ever rebooted it would be nice to find a way to tie all these little details together - maybe a location bit or someone's correspondence, or a character from Selby Flats or Five Points, etc.

I agree.  I enjoyed those nods to history in the later years of the show.  But you are very right, the execution was poor.  For example, Meta's (Mary Stuart's) speech at the end of one of the anniversary episodes -- where she mentions Five Points and Selby Flats, and even Reverend Rutledge.  But none of the Bauers lived in Five Points, and none of them had ever met Reverend Rutledge. So how would Meta be aware of them?   And then in even later years, TPTB seemed to try repeatedly to introduce a descendent of Reverend Rutledge, even though the original Reverend Rutledge had no sons, so his name could not have been carried-down through the generations to another male descendant.  There was just no logic to the way TPTB tried to call back to the show's earliest days.   It could have been done well and respectfully, but someone just didn't do enough research.  

Dr. Jonathan McNeil and his wife, Clare Lawrence McNeil, were also in the original series. Jonathan had been on since the early 1940s being played by Arthur Kohl and then Sidney Breese.  

The prison story that @Paul Raven referred to is the Roger Barton. He had spent several years in prison for embezzlement, a crime he hadn't committed. Upon returning, he learned his wife had married another man and that his son was a college student romantically involved with the daughter of the man who had set him up. In order to integrate himself back into his old world without the baggage, he rechristened himself Ray Brandon.