Gail Kobe was fine on Peyton Place.

HB and Bert could have worked IF the writing was there. And all the beats were played.

Charita passing and backstage stuff with Don Stewart might give Kobe/Long a pass re the Bauers, but writing out Hope and killing off Hilary are still blotting their copybook.

Re: Bert & H.B......I really can't picture those two as a couple. If they did marry, it would be a Liz Foster/Stuart Brooks situation where Bert would feel she did not fit into H.B.'s wealthy world and the constant conflict. 

It would have been interesting if Bert & Henry would have dated....I wonder how Vanessa would react ?

30 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

Re: Bert & H.B......I really can't picture those two as a couple. If they did marry, it would be a Liz Foster/Stuart Brooks situation where Bert would feel she did not fit into H.B.'s wealthy world and the constant conflict. 

It would have been interesting if Bert & Henry would have dated....I wonder how Vanessa would react ?

I can see Bert and Henry more than Bert and H.B. It would have been interesting to see if she started to go back to her meddling ways with his messy kids.

Vanessa's history with Ed could have gone into play. 

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Gail Kobe was fine on Peyton Place.

HB and Bert could have worked IF the writing was there. And all the beats were played.

Charita passing and backstage stuff with Don Stewart might give Kobe/Long a pass re the Bauers, but writing out Hope and killing off Hilary are still blotting their copybook.

It's hard to say what Pam might have done as by 1985 she was already leaving the show, but other than keeping Johnny around she didn't really do much for the Bauers in her second stint. 

Johnny had the Bauer surname but that was it.

The only other option for bringing in a new Bauer was giving Mike a son from a time he was away from Selby Flats/Springfield . A ONS type of thing. A pity there was no wriggle room for Charlotte or Leslie to have had a child.

I think Leslie and Mike should have had a child before she was killed off. They were searching for story and at least a pregnancy would have been something and posited another Bauer child on the canvas.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Years ago, I saw her on an episode of "Mannix" and said, "Well, now we know why she eventually transitioned into producing," lol.

Oh my 😆

12 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Johnny had the Bauer surname but that was it.

The only other option for bringing in a new Bauer was giving Mike a son from a time he was away from Selby Flats/Springfield . A ONS type of thing. A pity there was no wriggle room for Charlotte or Leslie to have had a child.

I think Leslie and Mike should have had a child before she was killed off. They were searching for story and at least a pregnancy would have been something and posited another Bauer child on the canvas.

If they'd done a better job with Johnny's sister and parents it might have made a difference, but I think the main problem was Ed was not a strong enough anchor for a wider family. Giving Mike a son could have worked. I might have brought Meta or Trudy back with some family - Trudy would have been a blank slate. 

16 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

If they'd done a better job with Johnny's sister and parents it might have made a difference, but I think the main problem was Ed was not a strong enough anchor for a wider family. Giving Mike a son could have worked. I might have brought Meta or Trudy back with some family - Trudy would have been a blank slate. 

I agree that it would've been easier to give Trudy a family as she was a blank slate, and easier for us to accept because she was on the show before, whereas Johnny's side was never mentioned before. The show's other big mistakes were killing of Meta's son, who would've had his own family by this point, and possibly killing off Kathy, discarding Joe Jr., and aging and killing off Robin too soon. 

And does anyone know if Bruce was mentioned when Meta returned in the 90's. I always assumed he died, but that wouldn't have given her reason to go back to using her maiden name

 

2 hours ago, SoapDope said:

Re: Bert & H.B......I really can't picture those two as a couple. If they did marry, it would be a Liz Foster/Stuart Brooks situation where Bert would feel she did not fit into H.B.'s wealthy world and the constant conflict. 

It would have been interesting if Bert & Henry would have dated....I wonder how Vanessa would react ?

I can't really see either duo either.

Vanessa would've hated it. She notoriously loathed Henry's friendship with Bea Reardon, which never really went beyond him squiring her to an occasional event. Had something started between Henry/Bert after Vanessa fell in love with Billy, she probably would've just gritted her teeth when/if a situation required her to defer to Bert. Although honestly, it's hard to imagine anyone at that time challenging Bert. 

12 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Your right, they were gearing up for an Alex/Mike/Lillian triangle, and there were scenes heading into that...(Mike taking Alex up in his plane, Lillian mistaking the intentions when Mike asked her back to his place for "dessert") Then it was dropped. It wasn't that Stewart didn't get along with Bev, it was that she was "too old" for him, and he could be, as most actors are, a pain.  That must have been when Kobe fired him( and I don't blame her...I would have just recast him immediately.) I have a feeling that the long game was for Mike and Alex to be together when Alan finally came back.

I think Long had every intention on continuing to use the Bauers...Mike with Alex and Bert with H.B.  (and I think that Bert would have been in the thick of things no matter with H.B. or not...Kobe felt that as long as Charita was there she could fire the entire cast and people would stay tuned.) But it was Kobe the driving force (and Charita's death caught them by suprise.) But there were many times that producers could have restored the Bauers, (Kobe could have recast Mike right before CB came back...but I think she was hesitant because FauxEd was not working out at all.)

I do think Alex wasn't Mike's type - he always seemed to go for more modest women, not someone who was dominant. Lillian makes more sense for Mike. With that said, I don't think a Mike/Lillian pairing would have brought a great deal of storyline. 

If anything, RVV's Ed not working should have made the show more likely to recast Mike, but by that point they seemed to want to try to move in a new direction, doubling down on "their" families, like the Shaynes and Lewises and Spauldings. I wonder if another reason is ageism, if Mike was just too old for them. 

If they had brought him back, it might have been interesting to have Hope get drunk and fall and hit her head while home alone with Alan-Michael. She'd end up in a coma and Mike would have to raise Alan-Michael for a while, which would be a struggle for him and also make him realize how little time he spent with Hope when she was a child. Then when Hope woke up, they could have brought back Elvera or recast the part and shown her recovery, maybe even a custody battle between father and daughter.

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I can see Bert and Henry more than Bert and H.B.

I agree!

4 hours ago, bboy875 said:

And does anyone know if Bruce was mentioned when Meta returned in the 90's. I always assumed he died, but that wouldn't have given her reason to go back to using her maiden name

When Meta returned to the show, there was no mention whatsoever about Bruce Banning or his and Meta's marriage. The oft-unreliable SoapCentral asserts they were divorced, but as is so often the case with that website, its contributors engage in a lot of fantasy fiction.

3 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

When Meta returned to the show, there was no mention whatsoever about Bruce Banning or his and Meta's marriage. The oft-unreliable SoapCentral asserts they were divorced, but as is so often the case with that website, its contributors engage in a lot of fantasy fiction.

If I recall correctly, Meta talked vaguely about her past -- mentioning mistakes she had made as a young woman.  But she didn't mention any names or particular storylines.  This was soon after her return in the late-90s, when Michele was struggling with her feelings for the "angel" man who had died, I think.  After that, I don't think Meta ever referenced her own past in any way at all.   

9 hours ago, P.J. said:

I can't really see either duo either.

Vanessa would've hated it. She notoriously loathed Henry's friendship with Bea Reardon, which never really went beyond him squiring her to an occasional event. Had something started between Henry/Bert after Vanessa fell in love with Billy, she probably would've just gritted her teeth when/if a situation required her to defer to Bert. Although honestly, it's hard to imagine anyone at that time challenging Bert. 

Well, there was a reason that their relationship was just going to events..etc..Henry was a big ole QUEEN! (watch some clips where he is just rolling his eyes at Vanessa, or Billy, or Alex, or Jenna, or the new curtains at the Towers...)

I can see Bert more with H.B. then Henry. Henry was old money (and I always presumed lots of it) and of the manor born...H.B. was new money (as Alex would sniff her nose and say) and worked his ass off for it. He was more down to earth and also raised a family. I think Bert would accept that ..and unlike Bea, she would be on to Henry, but respected the facade...: ) 

Alex and Mike I could see as they would challenge each other and there was more story then being with that drip Lillian.  For a maternal prescence I would have just brought back Bea, but write her stronger...( the woman raised 7 kids and ran a boarding house, she should have been tough stuff.)

The perfect time to expand the Bauer family was when Simon left during McTrash...Mike should have come back and maybe he is married and has an entire new family which would be close to AM 's age. Have a young earnest son  just going into law enforcement, I can see Poser's vampy, horny Amanda going for it much to the concern of both father's reginiting the Spaulding/Bauer feud. Edited to add..if they brought Mike back then..it would have been interesting to have him married to Jennifer (they could still have had kids off camera) so she comes back and resumes her contentious relationship with Amanda (who actually finds Mike to be a more supportive father figure causing conflict with Alan, and Morgan could come back...resuming her conflict with Nola (now this time Morgan is the bad girl, going after Quint for revenge...or maybe a recast Kelly returns.) Of course a Mike/Jennifer thing would cancel Amanda going after Mike's son, as even Poser's Amanda would find that an issue.

Meta did talk about her past, during one of Vanessa's Shady Ladies of SF support group thing she talked about it, and it actually was well written.

Edited March 7Mar 7 by Mitch64

7 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

When Meta returned to the show, there was no mention whatsoever about Bruce Banning or his and Meta's marriage. The oft-unreliable SoapCentral asserts they were divorced, but as is so often the case with that website, its contributors engage in a lot of fantasy fiction.

I'm beginning to really hate that website. You are right in that there was never any talk of Bruce and Meta getting a divorce. Either when she was off-screen or when she returned. Bruce was never mentioned. As thrilled as I was that they brought Meta back in the 90s, there was so much material that could have been mined for her in regards to her past that was never even touched upon. Such a waste. She was just brought on to be a generic matriarch of the Bauer family. She could have been anybody. The only past she seemed to mention was the angel stuff or going to see Reverend Ruthledge. Neither of which actually happened on the show. I just don't think later writers cared at all about the history of the show. Which is why it was shocking that they even brought Meta back at all. 

Edited March 7Mar 7 by Reverend Ruthledge

12 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

Meta did talk about her past, during one of Vanessa's Shady Ladies of SF support group thing she talked about it, and it actually was well written.

I'd love to see this scene. Mary Stuart could read the phone book, and I'd be entertained.