Y&R: Pretty big Phillip III spoiler...

[Rakesh]

SON has a ton of outspoken mini divas.

[Sylph]

Word.

But Sylph wouldn't be Sylph if he didn't have to point out that after all these years of soap opera existence one would think they would know that without having to read a post to get it.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

If you're referring to me, a lot of my posts have been constructive, it's not simply they suck or whatever.

[brimike]

Come on, Alvin. We've "known" each other long enough that you know I don't think that. I think you're one of the most intelligent posters around here, and I have nothing but respect for you. I wasn't pointing a finger at you.

I just want to make sure your message gets heard. And I guarantee you it won't be heard. If you just keep beating the same drum, after awhile, people just get used to the noise and stop hearing it.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Often I point out constructive criticism during the actual episodes, and it gets dismissed, because I'm too "negative." I don't know what to post anymore, especially when the same discussions occur over and over again.

It's hard not to point out the same thing, when they occur day in and day out on the show.

[All My Shadows]

They can be as diverse and as progressive as they want to be. But they didn't have to resurrect Phillip El Tres to do it. There was simply no need. If they wanted to tell a gay storyline, they could have capitalized on Rafe or made it about Phillip El Cuatro. Going down the "Phillip let his family think he was dead because he's gay!" route just seems so sensational to me.

[Vee]

I think it's an incredibly daring story. I'll forgive the glossing of continuity if it works, and I think it should. Honestly it's like fanfic someone would come up with that a network would never dare air, and now someone has. And that's a compliment, for once, which is rare when you're talking fanfic.

[Chris B]

If it's true that he'd only return if Phillip is gay, that's very similar to Chris Ehgen. I just hate actors dictating what should be done when most of the time they're wrong. I understand protecting your character, but not when agendas are involved. Imagine if Michelle Stafford demanded that Phyllis become a Scientology. People would be annoyed. Look at Anthony Geary with Ethan right now on GH. You need to act and how can you truly be a good actor if you can only play yourself? Just because Thom is gay doesn't mean Phillip needs to be. I strongly believe this will limit and isolate Phillip from his full long term potential. Had they made Phillip IV gay it would've been able to impact the canvas in a more organic way.

I guess we can count on Tricia Cast kicking rocks shortly after this reveal. There will be no use since her husband is gay and I doubt they'll pursue her with anyone else. Shame. I was so looking forward to something romantic between the two.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Phillip III should have stayed dead, it would have saved us a ridiculous return from the dead nonsense and this new ridiculous tale about abandoning his loved ones simply because of his sexuality.

Maria could have easily un-do Cane as the real Phillip III without bringing Bierdz back. In an attempt to fix a re-write, Maria used another re-write that crapped on as much history and takes the audience for fools as the initial re-write. When will this nonsense ever end? Sigh. daytime is f.ucked.

In an attempt to fix most of Latham/Smith's mistakes, she's made things just as bad as they ever were. Jill not being Katherine's daughter had almost no fallout, and the only thing we see is a bitter Jill (that's played for comedic relief these days) hurling insults at Katherine whenever they're on together. Mac and Billy have been a bust, and this quad is turning many off and has ruined everyone involved.

And yes, actors should never dictate storyline, I would have thought Queen MAB knew better than that, but at this point nothing surprises me.

Yeah, this show needs new management, badly.

[alphanguy74]

You younguns just don't get it. Things on the gay acceptance front have traveled at warp speed in the last 20 years. Those of my generation are really the last to be burdened with that massive level of shame from society. We grew up with the ridiculousness that was Anita Bryant. My best friend was given ELECTRIC SHOCK treatment at the age of 8 (This was 1977) it's heavy sh!t, but those who are in their early 20's now don't see it. And things were light years better for me than those who grew up in the 50's and 60's, many times, THAT generation just lived their entire lives as a lie, and went and had sex with other men in the bushes at public parks. My point is that as far as CHARACTERIZATION goes, this works for Phillip III, he had to get drunk to even go on a DATE with Cricket. People say Kay and Jill adored him, but they adored him on the SURFACE, neither one of them showed unconditional love, they used him as a tug of war chew toy to get back at the other one. This character was played with a DEEP undercurrent of VERY HEAVY emotional baggage, it's hard to understand unless you were watching at the time, it was major Pathos, wer'e talking here. Take Ashley Bashioum's Mac and TRIPLE IT. A courtroom custody battle over a 16 year old should give you a clue that these women were more about fighting over him than loving him. He said in court, that Jill shipping him off the boarding school made him feel like he'd been "Banished to Siberia". He has severe abandonment issues. Alot of people in that situation may not fake their death, but they run away from home as teenagers, and just dissapear, never contacting their families again. It doesn't make sense to most people.. EVEN ME, because I was raised differently, and had minimal trouble coming out to my mother. But for many, it's too much to bear, so tbey just avoid it at all costs. I'll admit, we had a death scene in the hospital, but there WERE NO MONITORS or DOCTOR PRESENT. Granted, It's not alot to hang your hat on... but in the world of the soap opera, it's ENOUGH. And there is NO WAY this SL is going to bomb. You all need to remember who wer'e talking about here... Bierdz, Cast, Walton, and Cooper. This SL could be written on rolls of toilet paper with pink crayon, and the finished product will sparkle like Liz Taylor's jewelry safe. And I know Cast is PHENOMENAL in her performances, but we know she's not going to stay for good. She lives a comfortable life in Nashville and stays at Jeanne Cooper's house when she comes out to film. She has not expressed the slightest desire to relocate back to California. So this is the perfect SL for her, one where she can kick ass onscreen, introduce the next generation on Chancellors, and still appear in the future here and there as a recurring character. I'd much rather have had her in THIS capacity than not at all. And Bierdz dictated how he would come back.. SO WHAT. He's not telling her how to write it, he just wanted his character to have 2 things, art and gayness. She didn't have to tell him YES, you know.

[brimike]

This post almost made me cry. I love your passion, alphanguy. Well said.

[cara mia]

I don't mind P3 being gay at all but I wish there were more to his disappearance and letting Jill think he was dead for all of these years. That's where I have a problem. I would even prefer some contrived witness protection story. I just find it so cruel for P3 to do this to Jill. He had to know she was in deep grief even up until now.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Nothing can save this storyline for me. Not only is is retcon of a death which is perhaps one of the most iconic moments on this show, it's adding a gay element on top of it which was never indicated on the show before. Bill Bell said he regretted killing Phillip III, but Bill Bell NEVER reversed his decision and he dealt with it. Phillip III's death drove YEARS worth or storylines for Jill, Katherine, and Nina. To just take it away like that isn't right, and it not only craps on the story's legacy, but that of the show's creator.

I don't like one big recton in a single storyline, yet alone two. This is very shaky ground this show is currently on. I'm afraid of what comes next, and I know I shouldn't be. As an viewer who loves reading and watching classic Y&R as much as I can, I feel betrayed.

Maria only cares about history when she can manipulate the audience with it and use it to cover up her flaws in creating her own history.

The problem is, Maria should never have accepted the terms of any actor dictating storyline elements to her. The show is her "show" and her "vision" after all.

[Vee]

I don't see it as a diva thing. Seems to me Bierdz never seriously expected to be asked back and said he'd only come back if he could do X and Y - never expecting anyone to take him on it. I didn't expect them to, either. But they did, and I'm as shocked and pleased as he is.

If you bitches bothered with the show and its contents half as much as you talk about "Maria," Kay Alden, Jack Smith, Latham, Hogan Sheffer, and yes, each other, I might take the ranting and raving seriously.

[alphanguy74]

Actors have a say in their SL's all the time, Michele Lee had quite a bit of power at Knots Landing. Jeanne Cooper and Eric Braeden have all KINDS of input to their characters. Jeanne Cooper's facelift was a PERFECT example of an actor doing something that dicatated SL, and it turned into GOLD. It just depends on how much the actor/actress is worth to the show, and if the end justifies the means. In the case of Bierdz.. it DOES. He was, and IS greatly loved, and this is gonna be good for us long time viewers. Shorter term and younger viewers just can't understand it because they don't have the emotional connection to the character. And there was TONS of groundwork laid for a gay SL in Bierdz' original run. As a matter of fact, if he had not left, I'm convinced that's where the character of Phillip would have gone, most viewers at the time felt this, as well. None of the groundwork then was OVERT, but it translates into a gay story like BUTTAH, wer'e just now seeing the Monet from a distance. Bill bell left that groundowrk vague on PURPOSE because it left his options open, that was part of his brilliance. IT could have went to a gay SL, or a clinical depression/attempted suicide SL, any number of things. And thanks for the compliment, Brimike... I feel passionately about this stuff.