Another World Discussion Thread

[vetsoapfan]

Yes.

I agree, but at least on the show's tenth anniversary, Mary was given her due.

I am so glad I kept the episode, and that it survived for decades until it could be digitized!

Out of curiosity, what years did you watch AW during Mary Matthews' time there?

[watson71]

In real life Dwyer lived until 2012.  If she was in good health, and Lemay hadn’t killed the character of Mary- the character could have remained on the AW canvas for its entire run.

[vetsoapfan]

Like Helen Wagner on ATWT and Mary Stuart on SFT. It would have been wonderful!

[Contessa Donatella]

The ATWT finale was set to have Helen Wagner be our host for a tour of sorts of the hospital. Unfortunately she died several weeks before the ending was shot. Dr. Bob Hughes was our host instead. It just made me so sad that they were going to honor her that way & it almost happened, but then, didn't. And, also it was astonishing to me that Goutman had that kind of right idea at that point in the game. 

[vetsoapfan]

Yes, I know that Wagner did not quite make it to ATWT's very last day, but in my mind, it was close enough. Her absence left a hole in the finale, alas.

[NothinButAttitude]

@vetsoapfan, what was Mary's relationship with Steve? I've always heard that she didn't like him. Was that true? I've always wondered how she truly felt about Rachel at times too. 

[Contessa Donatella]

I'm glad we know what the plan was. The knowledge is bittersweet but it is better by far than not knowing. 

But, back to my show, Another World, and Mary Matthews, matriarch, she quite honestly was never that kind of a matriarch to me & I do not think that having a longer tenure would have made her so. To me she was not like Nancy Hughes or Bert Bauer. Instead she was just a wife, a mother, etc. of the OG core family. Obviously if she'd had very different writing, then perhaps she would have been. But, I do not see that in her as it stands. I'm not sure if this is a minority opinion or not, but if it is, that's okay. They are not new to me. 

[teplin]

Same here. I loved Ada and I loved Lenore's mom, Helen (though I can barely remember her now). And I thought Alice Horton was the perfect grandma. But Mary Matthews did nothing for me. 

[Contessa Donatella]

YES! If I were to pick a very special kind of matriarch off of AW, it would have to be Ada. 3 of my favorite AW compilation videos are "The Lovely Ada" #1, #2 & #3. 

And, on DAYS Alice Horton was the pluperfect matriarch!!! I love that Peter Reckell adlibbed "Mrs. H" and it stuck! 

[j swift]

I had the same question regarding all the in-laws.

I know Mary did not approve of Rachel for Russ.  But, I don't recall her interactions with either Steve or John Randolph.

[Mona Kane Croft]

If I recall correctly, Mary liked Steve and supported his romance with Alice until around the time Steve married Rachel (between his marriages to Alice).  At that point, Mary gave up on Steve and encouraged Alice to move on without him and date other men.  

Regarding Rachel -- Mary never really trusted Rachel, but tried to be supportive of Russ's marriage to her.  When the family found out Jamie was not Russ's son and that Rachel had become pregnant by Steve Frame, Mary turned against Rachel vehemently and more or less grew to hate her.  But there was a nice scene between Rachel and Mary in 1975, after Rachel was seeing Mac.  The two women ran into one another in the hospital cafeteria, and had an uncomfortable but civil exchange.  Alice walked in and joined the scene.  After Rachel left, Mary commented to Alice that Rachel seemed to have changed since meeting Mac, and she hoped Rachel could finally find happiness.  This was just a feew weeks before Mary died.  

[vetsoapfan]

Mary was uneasy about Rachel from early on, regardless of how much Rachel tried to ingratiate herself into the family. It was clear that Rachel was desperate to better her life's circumstances, in terms of money and social status.

After Jim Matthews found out that Steve, and not Russ, had gotten Rachel pregnant, Mary couldn't even control her fury. She became enraged and started shrieking, "I hate her! I HATE HER!" Imagine Alice Horton or Ruth Martin or Jessie Brewer going berserk like that. It was actually rather chilling.

Mary was okay with Steve at the beginning. He was kind to Alice and respectful to the family. But after what he did to Russ and Alice, Mary developed negative feelings about Steve, and her cool reserve lasted a long time.

Mary became chilly towards Steve after he devastated her children, but she never had a beef with John, IIRC.

[Mona Kane Croft]

Not picking on Donna, but quoting her just to reply.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  A slight rebuttal here, and not an argument at all. To those who don't see Mary as a good or archetypal matriarch such as Nancy Hughes, Bert Bauer, etc;  it is important to remember that Harding Lemay did not like the character or even the idea of the traditional soap opera matriarch.  So he severely minimized the character, reducing her screen time significantly, having Mary "out of town" often with little explanation, and he even attempted to fundamentally change Mary's personality by making her less likable. So to fans who saw Mary only during the Lemay years, I can understand why she seemed to be less important than Nancy, Bert, etc.  That was because Lemay intentionally sabotaged the character.  He didn't want the audience to like or appreciate her. 

I was lucky enough to watch AW during the earlier head-writing runs of Agnes Nixon and Robert Cenedella, and Mary was written as a true traditional soap opera matriarch until Mr Lemay showed up.  In fact, Mary was so similar to Nancy Hughes it was uncanny. Mary and Jim hosted family holidays, supported their children and other family members, and gave advice to nearly anyone who would listen.  They were both extremely important characters who got lots of scenes and lots of screen time.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind about Mary, but I just wanted to add some historical perspective to the discussion.   Poor Virginia Dwyer was "put through the ringer" during her final few years on AW.  Both the actress and the character suffered.  

[vetsoapfan]

@Mona Kane Croft, I agree with your analysis of Mary Matthews, and how the character seriously devolved under Harding Lemay. He even acknowledged in print that he wanted to imbue her with the negative attributes that were more appropriate "for a woman like that."

Under Irna Phillips, Agnes Nixon and Robert Cenedella, however, Mary was a warm, nurturing, maternal figure.

[j swift]

I'm surprised after all that John put Pat through, but I guess it fits with the character that Pat was never one to complain to her mother about her marital problems.  And, it fits with the times that John's alcoholism was viewed more as a character deficit than a disease.