The Politics Thread

[Max]

Qfan, please allow me to prove once again that your hate-filled comments are total bulls#it: Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma has gone on record stating that tax increases are necessary in order to erase our deficit. Additionally, as governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee (according to Wikipedia--a site that you have used to defend one of the arguments you previously made) "signed into law increases in cigarette and tobacco taxes as well as a three percent income tax surcharge."

Your vile and disgusting comment was way out of line, but it is no surprise given your track record. The following two quotes are perhaps the very worst things you have said:

On how you feel regarding each and every Republican as well as anybody who has ever voted for one:

The following comment that you made in regards to Gabby Giffords' shooter, which turned out to be completely off the mark:

I will no longer be talking politics with you, because your tone is that of first-grader who cannot be reasoned with. (In fact, I intend to give this entire thread a rest for a while.) It is truly beyond my comprehension on how you came to be so preoccupied with hatred towards each and every Republican. While there is a welcome diversity of political viewpoints here at SON, nobody else here is closed-minded and spiteful in their thinking the way you are.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Max

[quartermainefan]

No Max, you stay I will go. I enjoy talking to you but if I make you feel uncomfortable then I will go and you stay. My opinions of modern republlcans stem from watching them campaign against gay people, the poor, their attempts to tell us what to read and who to sleep with, what women should do with their bodies, and the lies they tell as they pocket more and more money. But that's me and this thread should be for everyone, so you stay and my opinion on these people has already been stated.

[LeClerc]

A Canadian moment: Just got back from watching Jack Layton's state funeral from the square beside Roy Thomson hall. What an amazing experience! A massive turn-out in the square and on the streets of Toronto and such a moving and inspiring ceremony.

Edited August 27, 2011 by LeClerc

[Money]

Who in the Democratic party who will rise up against Obama?

[DRW50]

There's some talk about Bernie Sanders.

Just wanted to apologize if any of my posts caused any bad response.

[Money]

Bernie Sanders? *shudders* Might as well give it to Obama.

Dems need a Gore type personality to give the party a resurgence.

[Max]

I'm still going to refrain from talking about politics for awhile (though I will eventually come back), but I just wanted to express my desire to have Qfan return to this thread ASAP. (This thread is certainly not the same without him.) I completely overreacted in my above posting, and had no intention to push him away from this thread. I am sincerely sorry that my statements caused him to refrain from posting here.

Qfan has never been rude to me personally. (Shamefully, I cannot make the same claim with regards to the way I have treated him.) However, I was just really upset that he feels all Republicans are evil. (If he stated that most Republicans were evil, I would not have been upset.) That being said, Qfan has every right to feel the way he does and to express such opinions. Rather than having reacted in such an immature way (as I did), I should have been able to have gotten over my stupid hang-ups.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Max

[DRW50]

It may just be best to not even talk about politics. I've decided I'm not going to.

[Adam]

That must have been so emotional. Watching it on t.v. certainly was. I never voted for the NDP with him as leader, but you couldn't help but respect his approach. He seemed to genuine and fought so passionately for his objectives. Canadian politics now have a gaping whole with him gone. The saddest part is he never really got an opportunity to full-out challenge Harper and the Conservatives as Opposition Leader beyond the debate over the Canada Post strike back in June.

[LeClerc]

The only time I've voted for the NDP in a federal election was the last election and that was mainly due to Jack's impressive debate performance. He exuded, as you said, genuineness and passion for his beliefs, both of which I found totally lacking in Iggy.

Even my dad, who is as far out there on the right as one can get, always ended his tirades against Jack's politics with "But I have enormous respect for the man", an addendum he has never made after going off against any other politician on the left.

I'm definitely glad I went. Normally I avoid spending a second more in Toronto than I have to after work and I don't like big crowds. But half-way to Union Station I realized I would probably regret not having stayed and headed back. There was so much goodness and civility on display Saturday. Even when Harper arrived I was worried he might be booed or something, but people applauded him.

Speaking of Harper, Jack would have gotten a real kick out of Harper standing up and applauding his "manifesto for social democracy" (although that was an awkward situation for Harper and the rally-esque nature of the ceremony - mainly Stephen Lewis' eulogy- made me cringe a bit).

[Max]

After taking a brief hiatus, I'll try to resume talking politics. Hopefully, I will do so in a much more civil fashion; once again, I am so sorry for the horrible way I treated Qfan.

Despite the fact that it is a heavily Democratic district, I was not surprised that Republican Bob Turner defeated Democrat David Weprin in last night's special election to replace the disgraced Anthony Weiner (who represented parts of Brooklyn and Queens in the House). There are two reasons for this: first is the fact that Weprin (despite being a really nice guy) is a piss poor politician; the second reason is that Weiner's district (despite being very Democratic) is still the least Democratic district in all of NYC outside of Staten Island (due to the fact it contains a very high population of white ethnics, and a smaller than city-wide average number of blacks and hispanics).

I am not going to gloat about Turner's victory the way most Democrats gloated about a special election victory (earlier this year) in which a Democrat pulled off an upset victory in a Republican Congressional district in upstate New York (to replace Chris Lee, who--like Weiner--was also disgraced in an online sex scandal). The fact of the matter is that special elections--the majority of the time--are not barometers of the national mood, but are rather decided based on the quality (i.e., political skills) of those participating in those races. When all is said and done, nobody doubts that Obama will win Weiner's former district (as well as New York State as a whole) and lose Lee's former district.

Unfortunately (for myself), the GOP primary race has taken a turn for the worse with Perry in it. I would put his chances at winning the nomination at 80%, yet he is completely unelectable (in a general election) due to his comment that Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme. (This comment will scare seniors like hell, and will make it impossible for Perry to win Florida, which is a state that a Republican must win in order to capture the White House.)

Despite having many flaws, Romney would be favored to beat Obama in a general election (if the economy's just as bad a year from now as it is today). There's do doubt that Romney is a complete phony, who flip-flops his positions to whatever his audience wants to hear. However, the truth of the matter is that Obama is also a phony, given that he campaigned as somebody who would end politics as usual (not to mention the fact that he completely flip-flopped on the issue of closing Gitmo). (Thus, when faced with the choice of a Republican phony or a Democratic phony, I'll take the former.) As I've stated before, my first choice for president is Huntsman; unfortunately he is running such a dismal campaign (for instance, he rarely goes on the attack; as a result of this, he is stuck at 1% in the polls) that I am seriously considering voting for Romney instead.

Obviously, a Romney victory (in the GOP primary) will be extremely hard to pull off. Although his phoniness and flip-flopping turn off a lot of people, the sad fact of the matter is that what is hurting him the most is that he is a Mormon. Because of his religion, he has zero chance of winning a primary in a southern state with the possible exception of Florida. In order for him to pull off a miracle and win the nomination, Romney will need to win just about every state in the northeast, midwest, and west. (Although it should be stated that Romney will be unable to win any state that has a caucus instead of a primary--such as Iowa--because caucuses are dominated by those on the far-right or far-left.)

Edited September 15, 2011 by Max

[Adam]

Perry to me is not electable, and if he is... the American society is in more trouble than we all have feared. Obama is so beatable right now and as an outsider I want him gone myself, but the only thing that will keep him in office is a weak candidate on the right. All of them currently fit that bill. Romney is the most "electable" yes, but is he that likable? I don't think so. Obama the campaigner will use his charisma to his advantage out on the trails.

Really... as I've said before.... someone should seriously break protocol and mount a challenge to Obama within the Democratic Party. They may get blackballed, they may not.... but from what I gather there are just as many democrats for this man as there are against.

I think he's the worst US President probably since Carter for leadership.

[alphanguy74]

You know, Max... I agree with you that Rick Perry is just DISMAL. He's totally cut his own throat with that Social Security thing. We have this contingent of people that seem to think ANY government program is SOCIALISM. Social Security has worked just fine for people for 75 years, yes... it may have trouble in the future, but you just MAKE ADJUSTMENTS, how hard is that? Also, part of the problem that nobody against SS EVER works into their stats is the fact that the baby boomers are causing a temporary bottleneck in the system. And, due to advancement in medical technology, we are living longer today, so you just raise the reterement age one year at a time, once overy 2 or 3 years until the finances are put back in line again, how hard is that? It's like sending your car to the junkyard because it needs new tires. Same with the postal service. The internet has done damage to something that has workd well for well over 100 years, it doesn't mean it's BAD. If thye need more money, congress needs to get off their butts and raise postage to 50 cents, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they got rid of Saturday delivery.

[Max]

One of the saddest truths in politics is that those who win campaigns (especially at the presidential level) are the most charismatic and "likeable" candidates (as opposed to the most qualified candidates). Thus, it is for this reason, Adam, that I agree with you that the incompetent Obama has a very good chance of getting re-elected should Romney be his opponent.

The Democrats should indeed nominate somebody other than Obama in 2012. (Were this to happen, either Perry or Romney would get crushed.) However, there are two things that are scaring off potential challengers: the first is that any primary challenger to Obama will be "blackballed" by being called a "racist" (in much the same way as Hillary was back in 2008), and the second reason is that it is extremely hard to defeat an incumbent president in a primary election.

If the general election ends up being Obama versus Perry (as it certainly looks that way), I really hope a viable independent candidate enters the race, because both of these people are completely unacceptable. Although a lot of Democrats despise this man, I would really support an independent candidacy of Rudy Giuliani. Despite exploiting 9/11 in a very distasteful manner, the fact is that he was one of the best ever NYC mayors (the way he reduced crime was nothing short of a miracle), and I think he would make a great president. (It is just such a shame that he can never win a GOP presidential nomination because of his liberal social views.)

Alphanguy, your solutions to the above problems are very good and sensible ones. Unfortunately, anytime (in the past) a politician has suggested raising the retirement age (before one can collect Social Security), that politician was subjected to scare tactics and accused of "throwing Granny under the bus." It is beyond tragic that such hysteria is commonplace in our political system (and both parties use it very effectively).

Edited September 19, 2011 by Max

[Max]

According to an Associated Press article, millionaires are (on average) actually taxed at higher rates than the middle and working classes:

http://news.yahoo.co...-070642868.html

This was a surprise to me, because when Warren Buffett earlier stated that he paid a lower tax rate than his secretary, most took that to mean that the rich (in general) were taxed at a higher rate than the middle class. In Buffett's case, he pays such a low tax rate because so much of his income comes from capital gains (as opposed to salary), which are taxed at a much lower rate; the article above indiciates that this is not the case for most of the wealthy (and that is why they are taxed at a higher rate than the middle class). The other major reason why some (albeit a minority) of rich pay at a lower rate than the middle class is because they know how to take advantage of all of tax deductions and other loopholes in the system.

The fairest thing to do (in terms of taxation) is to have one flat tax that is equal for capital gains and salaried income (and applies to all people of all wealth levels); this is a conservative idea. However, the loopholes and generous tax deductions should also be eliminated as well (and this is a liberal idea).

Edited September 21, 2011 by Max