The Politics Thread

[Wendy]

 

I keep reading this. And I have nothing against it. All are better than Trump. But do Harris or Booker even want it? Biden seems the only better-than-maybe option right now in that case.

 

On another note: Sayonara, Trey Gowdy! Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

[DRW50]

 

Booker seems to crave publicity above anything else. I do think he's too irritating (and also tied to the highly annoying Mindy Kaling) to have much shot.

 

Media darling Gowdy Doody is gone. Wow. How sad when the GOP has become too extreme even for him.

[Juliajms]

Does Joe K? I guess we'll know more about who is interested in a few months. They'll have to start fundraising.

[Wendy]

 

True. But last night's speech and being chosen to give it, makes me think this was testing the waters. Time will tell!

[Khan]

 

I feel the same way, Julia.  Remember when Ted jockeyed for the Democratic nomination?  From everything that I've heard and read over the years, I've gathered that "Uncle Teddy" had no other reason to run for president EXCEPT that he was a Kennedy.  Because he was JFK and RFK's kid brother, he was expected to follow in their footsteps.  In retrospect, though, it seems that Ted's heart just wasn't in it; and because his heart wasn't in it, falling short of the nomination was inevitable.  (Which is especially sorrowful when you realize that if he had had a more compelling reason for being president, he might have been able to secure the nomination and maybe even defeat Reagan in the general election.  As it was, we had to pin our hopes again on Jimmy Carter, even though his one term had been written off as lackluster.)

 

As much as I like Joe III, I, too, would rather he waited until he was more seasoned before gunning for the presidency.  I think he needs time -- MORE time -- to prove himself as a politician, so that when and if he DOES run, his supporters have a solid counter-argument to what will surely be the GOP's cries of "He's only running, because he's a Kennedy!".

 

Similarly, I don't want Joe Biden because, to me, that smacks of "We can't do no better" and "Please, Mr. White Man, come save us (again)!"  I KNOW the Democrats could do better if they actually tried.

 

IMO, there's a difference between WANTING and DESERVING.  Many might WANT the nomination, but not all of them DESERVE to be nominated.  In 2020, I want whoever runs against Trump to be someone who genuinely DESERVES the nomination.  Not that it will guarantee that Trump loses, but if that S.O.B. wants another four years to mess over this country, dammit, I don't want those years handed to him on a gold platter, which is what will happen should he run against a weak-sauce candidate who doesn't really deserve to be there and has no compelling reason to run other than (s)he isn't Trump.  I want Trump to FIGHT for those years -- so hard, in fact, that it'll make 2016 look like a freaking cakewalk -- and leave him virtually spent at the end.  (That should teach his orange ass but good, lol.)

 

I'm glad to see Trey Gowdy gone, if only because I'm sick and tired of confusing him with CURT Gowdy.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Khan

[marceline]

 

I'm going to respectfully push back on this. I think all this talk about political dynasties ignores reality. People like to talk about the Kennedys, Bushes and Clintons have been a part of America since its founding. We've had the Adams (John & John Quincy), the Roosevelts (Teddy, FDR), the Taft/Chaffee family (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft_family) and MANY more. 

 

I feel like this rejection of "dynasties" is another facet of this constant desire for outsiders but I'm not one of those people. I want someone who knows the system inside and out and if they learned that from the cradle all the better.

 

That said any talk of Kennedy 2020 is insanely premature. He's got a ways to go but he's off to a good start.

[DRW50]

 

I think there would be less cynicism about them if they were more capable of keeping the dynasties going. In the case of the Kennedys they have felt tapped out for a long time. The one I think could have had potential if she wanted to do so was Caroline Kennedy, but after all of that ugliness when she was in consideration to replace Hillary in the Senate, I'm not surprised she doesn't want to go there anymore.  

[Khan]

Of course, I can't speak for Julia -- or anyone else, for that matter -- but it seems to me that you're suggesting you can't be someone who knows the fine workings of the political machine in this country without being a member of an established political family; and...well...I just don't think that's true.

 

I think you CAN be an insider who "knows the system inside and out," but who isn't a member of an established political family and thus feels entitled to the office.  Not that I'm saying FDR, RFK, Teddy Kennedy, or John Quincy Adams felt entitled to become president on account of their lineage (well, maybe John Quincy felt entitled, lol), but it seems as if that's the direction we could be heading toward should, say, Donny Jr., Eric, Barron, or even Ivanka decide they, too, want to be president.

 

I'm leaving out Tiffany because, well, Tiffany considers it a victory if she can find her way to the bathroom.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Khan

[Khan]

 

Frankly, I think JFK Jr. might have been the family's last, best hope.  Any other Kennedys who ran after him, including Joe III, could be super-qualified, but they wouldn't have captured (and don't capture) the same level of excitement and enthusiasm that John-John might have.

 

Of course, that's presuming that JFK Jr. would've entered politics eventually -- and there are equally compelling arguments that he probably wouldn't have, especially after Jackie had passed away.  (Me?  Well, given what I have read about the Kennedys, and about JFK Jr. in particular, I'm inclined to believe the theory that he really wanted to pursue an acting career, but was prevented from doing so on account of his mother's distaste for Hollywood; and that even when he launched that magazine, he was still floundering, because he couldn't do what he really wanted to do.)

[marceline]

 

No. Nononono. That's not what I meant to say ATALL. My intended point was that political dynasties are nothing new. They are woven into the fabric of this country and some of the people from some of those families did real good so we shouldn't reject anyone simply because of their last name or bloodline. 

[dragonflies]

Speaking of JFK JR next year will be 20 years since he was killed

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[JaneAusten]

JFK Jr was certainly handsome and had charisma but he certainly didn't have the desire and I am not sure he was the smartest tool in the shed. But at the end of the day after what Jackie went through with Jack and then watching Bobby get killed, she likely never encouraged and most likely would have discouraged both Caroline and John IMO.

[marceline]

 

For all this talk about Camelot and Chappaquidick (sp?), he's the Kennedy I remember. I remember his wedding to Carolyn and I remember watching the news stories of the search for their plane. It was heartbreaking.

[Khan]

I remember I was in Las Vegas, watching the wall-to-wall coverage of JFK Jr.'s plane crash, and wondering whether the so-called Kennedy curse had struck again.  When the news was official, I was both stunned and saddened.  "Kennedys getting killed?  That's something that happened in my parents' youth, not mine."  But, there I was, in a hotel room in Vegas, watching whoever was on CNN announcing the news.

 

IIRC, JFK Jr. was diagnosed with ADD and dyslexia as a child; and in fact, he even had to repeat a year in prep school.  But, OTOH, friends who knew him from Brown say he could tackle and argue both sides of many complex political issues.  So, I think he had the mental aptitude for the presidency -- definitely more than Trump or his children do -- but you're right, I don't believe he had the desire.

 

True dat.  And I want to apologize for coming across as thinking that way.  I wouldn't reject someone like Joe III just because he's a Kennedy...but I think we would need more compelling reasons to vote for him if he were running today.  Saying "well, he's a Kennedy" or even "well, he's not Trump" wouldn't be good enough under our current circumstances.

[marceline]

 

His first venture was publishing a magazine so I think he would've stayed with publishing for a while then who knows what next. In another timeline, he might've been Steve Jobs or Bill Gates.