The Politics Thread

[Juliajms]

^ They are ending DACA.  It seems like this wasn't entirely random though. Several states were suing saying that the initial executive order was unconstitutional and the deadline was today. Let me see if I can find an article.

[marceline]

 

The way the DNC continues to allow him to sabotage us is endlessly frustrating. I know a lot of people who want to cut Perez and Ellison loose over it. I'm not that far gone yet but I'm not sending them any money until Bernie and his band of zealots are gone.

[cassadine1991]

Do the Republicans not realize that DACA also affects people from Europe too? Hispanics and Muslims aren't the only ones who are immigrants 

[Juliajms]

Article on Tennessee pulling out of the suit, but still makes the point.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-tennessee-daca-lawsuit-20170901-story.html

The people who are this vehement about immigration don't care.   There really are a large number of people who are very ridged about "the law is the law".  I've talked to some and it's like hitting your head against a brick wall. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Juliajms

[hsfolk]

it's not really fair to those in other countries taking the necessary steps to come to America legally to reward those that jump the line

[DramatistDreamer]

America will make exceptions when it suits them, I guess. They could care less about fairness.  Case and point.

 

 

[marceline]

 

It's not about the law. It's about the fact that mediocre white people are desperate to remove any and all competition. Remember a few months ago Tom Cotton put forth a plan to reduce legal immigration too. We are at the mercy of some of the stupidest meanest people the world has ever seen.

[Khan]

 

IMO, the DNC won't cut loose Bernie or his supporters, because they want to maintain the attitude of fairness and inclusivity in politics.  However, I ask, should a political party be so welcoming toward a potential candidate who makes it clear from the start that he is not one of them, that he does not endorse the same ideologies that they do, and that his number-one objective in aligning himself with the party is to deconstruct it from within?

 

Look, I'm sure there were MANY reasons why Debbie Wasserman Schultz had to go as DNC chair, but although her methods (meaning, of course, those damn emails) in pushing Hillary as her party's nominee over Bernie were questionable, at the end of the day, I can't exactly question why she did what she did that ultimately proved her undoing.

 

IA.  And if they were to remove the competition, guess what?  The Chinese would still hand us our asses at the end.  Because -- and forgive me if this offends anyone -- but Americans are, in fact, the laziest, most incurious bunch of assholes on the planet.  If it means breaking even a LITTLE sweat, we out.

 

If I were that soldier, I'd go AWOL and then defect to my wife's country.  I'm not kidding.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Khan

[Juliajms]

Sure, that exists, but it's not like these people are all thinking with one mind. In fact, there was a time when I felt like it wasn't fair to let people who came illegally stay when other people had to wait years . Most of the people waiting aren't white either. I changed my mind over time when I saw the practical reality of what was happening to people and families. Sometimes what is technically fair and what is morally right are not the same. 

 

If white people are worried about competition it's because of leaders haven't done a very good job about explaining how economics work. We're going to be Japan soon enough if we don't have population growth.

 

 

The Chinese may or may not hand us our asses, but I don't agree that Americans are lazy or incurious.  Overall we work very long hours compared to places like Europe.  Now if you mean you aren't going to get many Americans working in the fields these days I'll agree with you there.

[JaneAusten]

If Americans are not lazy or incurious(and not all are) why the blame on immigrants stealing their jobs? There are over 4 million skilled jobs available in this country. Not migrant jobs. We don't have enough skilled people to fill them. Whose fault is that? I had a very interesting discussion with my sister in law who is from the Philippines and she talked about certain immigrant groups skirting the law. She didn't understand how actively our government ignores businesses who employ these people, they aren't fined anymore, how busloads of Mexican immigrants somehow get across the border - busses at the behest of meat packing plant businesses, construction businesses, that go into Mexico,  all for the less than fair labor rate.

 

But dreamers are not those people. These are the people we claim we want immigrating. Well educated skilled people, doctors, nurses, businesspeople, contributing to our economy, people helping to fill those 4 million jobs some white Americans don't want to strive for. I'm not suggesting everyone can and should goto college, but these 4 million jobs require skills that it seems many Americans don't have and people who seem to believe that a GED or HS diploma is enough to get you a job to support a family of 4.  For someone with initiative yes. But not for people who want to blame black and brown people and women for their misfortunes and inability to find work. I realize the issues are more complex, but hell, we have refugees from Somalia and Syria who have come into this country in recent years and help turn around communities like Buffalo and Pittsburgh, but some white guys feels they are "owed" a living. I admire the former coal miners in West Virginia trying to start a tech company of former miners running into road blocks due to lack of a tech infrastructure, but I frankly can't empathize with some who are fully capable of helping themselves, blaming others.

Those same kind of people said Jews were not German and had no problem when Germany took away their citizenship in the 1930's. Is that really the country we want to become. I frankly hate to think of what those detention centers holding undocumented folks close to the border are doing to these folks.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by JaneAusten

[Ponds]

It also has to do with the f*cking wall.  Trump thinks he can force congress to build it in an "Immigration Reform" bill that will allow Dreamers to stay.

[JaneAusten]

If this *uckhead wants a wall, he can raise the money for it. Not one fricking dime for something he CLAIMED Mexico would pay for. Another lie from this incompetent grifter.

 

On the subject of DACA I fully believe it should be legislated. Congress has gotten off easy the past 7 years criticizing Obama and not DOING ANYTHING. See replacing Obamacare as the prime example. When all you do is talk and obstruct, that's not leading.

[Juliajms]

Wow. Way to paint and entire nation with one brush.   Most Americans work very hard, not sure how a Fox news talking points changes that. I don't see any evidence that most Americans believe immigrants are stealing "their jobs".  Most Americans favor legal immigration (and the Dreamers) and  Trump lost by 3 million votes.  I'm pretty sure most of us know the reasons there aren't enough Americans to fit some of these skilled jobs.

 

 First of all, any population will only have a certain number of people who are intelligent and educated enough to meet those job requirements.  The average IQ in the US is 100, we've talked about this before. Working hard doesn't overcome a lack of brainpower. Racism and lack of opportunity for the poor certainly play a part in lack of opportunity for some of the people that would be smart enough to train for these jobs. I'm all for letting in more skilled immigrants. It's probably one point the Republicans and I agree on. That is as long as it's not a situation like Disney where they are firing the workers they have to get cheaper people in.

 

2/3 Americans think there should be a path for the undocumented to become citizens.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/17/politics/poll-oppose-trump-deportation-immigration-policy/index.html

Edited September 5, 2017 by Juliajms

[dragonflies]

I love when he drags Trumpelstiltskin for filth lol

 

 

[JaneAusten]

I don't think I said all Americans, but there are many who blame minorities and women for their fortunes. I have 2 in my own family who talk about those lazy so and so's. 1 in fact who blamed a 'wetback' (his words not mine) for taking a job he was allegedly up for. And I watched for years as these 2 young white males(my nephews) were given every opportunity by their parents and grandparents - money schooling support- to help give them a lift up. They are both working now in decent jobs, but still hold a lot of animosity. These are young white males who themselves did grow up  privileged and many of their friends are the same. And these are not older white males, but younger. I think there are likely a lot more of these folks than many of us want to believe. I hope I am wrong.

 

Reagan gave amnesty to over 2 million immigrants and simultaneously stopped going after businesses for employing illegal immigrants. This has been a problem long time coming. But I am not convinced deportation is the answer. I would say that the majority of the undocumented folks are contributing, helping out GDP, paying taxes. We should be doing better than a deportation force and be working on giving everyone some sort of path to legal residency either permanent or temporary. My guess is it won't happen because there are too many people influencing politics in this country who want the slave labor and don't mind a few being sent back.

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by JaneAusten