I agree Donald May should have been Alex and Kin Shriner should have been Ryan. Throw him into the mix from the start. Ryan and Ginny could have still have been paired. Having three top leads, Beverlee, Donald, and Kin, in story together could have pulled in more interest. 

Another context variable that seems to have been ignored in our discussion thus far, is that this was 1980, during the height of Luke and Laura. 

I just looked it up.  Texas premiered on August 4th, 1980.  August 6th, 1980, Luke and Laura danced at Wyndham's Department Store.  Which then meant that their first November sweeps period was dominated by the L&L wedding, which was (arguably?) the highest rated episode in daytime history.

I don't care how cute Donald May was at the time.  Nobody was going to compete against Luke and Laura by focusing on the past loves of Iris Cory.  It did not matter if they weren't in direct competition, the youth were driven to ABC that summer.

Edited April 7Apr 7 by j swift

11 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Of course the decision to try and turn Iris into a heroine was also a fail.

Well, I think TPTB probably believed it would be impossible to create a soap opera where the star was an antagonist. How do you make such a mean neurotic woman the center of the show?  Perhaps a decade later, they would have tried that, and it might have worked.  But in 1980, they probably thought that would be impossible.  And they may have been right.  

19 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

Well, I think TPTB probably believed it would be impossible to create a soap opera where the star was an antagonist. How do you make such a mean neurotic woman the center of the show?  Perhaps a decade later, they would have tried that, and it might have worked.  But in 1980, they probably thought that would be impossible.  And they may have been right.  

Uh, i just have to ask are you new to soaps?

Erica Kane, Rachel Davis Cory, ATWT's Lisa, ... 

11 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Alex and Iris was supposed to be a sweeping love story but Bert Kramer didn't gel with BM.

Of course the decision to try and turn Iris into a heroine was also a fail.

How good did they try to make Iris? My memories of Texas don't go much beyond the fact that it existed and Iris and Dennis were there, but I had a vague idea that although Iris didn't have Daddy to obsess over and Rachel to spite, she possibly interfered in Dennis' love life. Was Iris completely toothless in Texas?

Of course part of the transformation of Rachel from villain to heroine was the introduction of Iris -- did heroine Iris not have any antagonist to plague her?

3 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Uh, i just have to ask are you new to soaps?

Erica Kane, Rachel Davis Cory, ATWT's Lisa, ... 

Erica was not the star of AMC at the beginning.  Plus Erica was never as mean and dangerous as Iris.  

Lisa was also never as mean (or as effectively mean) as Iris. By the time Liza became wealthy, she had mellowed considerably. 

And Rachel had reformed before she became the lead at AW.

I think the question TPTB were dealing with at Texas was, how do we build an entire new show around such an antagonistic character?  And is that even possible or advisable??  And they decided against doing that.  I've always believed that was the reason they turned Iris into a heroine.  Otherwise, why not just let her remain neurotic and deceitful?  I can't think of another reason they would have changed Iris so much.  

1 hour ago, j swift said:

Another context variable that seems to have been ignored in our discussion thus far, is that this was 1980, during the height of Luke and Laura. 

I just looked it up.  Texas premiered on August 4th, 1980.  August 6th, 1980, Luke and Laura danced at Wyndham's Department Store.  Which then meant that their first November sweeps period was dominated by the L&L wedding, which was (arguably?) the highest rated episode in daytime history.

I don't care how cute Donald May was at the time.  Nobody was going to compete against Luke and Laura by focusing on the past loves of Iris Cory.  It did not matter if they weren't in direct competition, the youth were driven to ABC that summer.

The L&L wedding was in November 1981 - if you meant the first Texas sweeps when the show was on the air a full year, my apologies. 

I think the best way to compete with GH would have been trying not to compete with them and doing their own thing. GL did manage to compete with GH, but that was with the headwriter who had helped build GH's comeback. 

There just wasn't any reason for Texas! to exist, at least the way it was put together. I do not believe 60 minute soap debuts are a good idea, it was clear strong plans weren't in place, and this was the worst time to try to spin off AW. If they were going to spin off AW, then some of the suggestions of characters like Pat, or other Matthews family members who weren't on the canvas at the time, might have made more sense to me, but even then, I don't know.

I guess they were too early on the train to realize that trying to imitate Dallas was also not going to work. The only successful daytime attempts (or primetime attempts for that matter) were fusing OLTL and GL with Ewing offshoots.

Of course, GL would go on to inherit so much of Texas' spirit, minus Carla Borelli (I wonder if she ever regretted that).

Is it wrong to say Iris was "toothless" on TEXAS?  Maybe.  As a character, however, Iris was about one thing: her obsessive love for her father, and her jealousy over her new stepmother's place in his life.  Everything Iris did on AW was motivated by that obsession.  Take that away from her, and what is she?

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

There just wasn't any reason for Texas! to exist, at least the way it was put together. I do not believe 60 minute soap debuts are a good idea, it was clear strong plans weren't in place, and this was the worst time to try to spin off AW.

I agree.  Furthermore, P&G and NBCD had spun off AW at least once before, and the results were mixed to say the least.  What convinced them and Paul Rauch that the second attempt would be more successful?

Edited April 7Apr 7 by Khan

7 minutes ago, Khan said:

Is it wrong to say Iris was "toothless" on TEXAS?  Maybe.  As a character, however, Iris was about one thing: her obsessive love for her father, and her jealousy over her new stepmother's place in his life.  Everything Iris did on AW was motivated by that obsession.  Take that away from her, and what is she?

I agree.  Furthermore, P&G and NBCD had spun off AW at least once before, and the results were mixed to say the least.  What convinced them and Paul Rauch that the second attempt would be more successful?

It's too bad they got cold feet about the Doctors spinoff as I think that could have actually worked.

3 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

It's too bad they got cold feet about the Doctors spinoff as I think that could have actually worked.

I think so, too.  Just as I think expanding TD to sixty minutes was worth a try in order to save the show.  If P&G and NBCD really wanted to spin off AW again, then they should've used Victoria Wyndham/Rachel.  Maybe create a new, half-hour serial that followed her to a new town after her and Mac's marriage blew up over Janice or something.

Edited April 7Apr 7 by Khan

7 minutes ago, Khan said:

Is it wrong to say Iris was "toothless" on TEXAS?  Maybe.  As a character, however, Iris was about one thing: her obsessive love for her father, and her jealousy over her new stepmother's place in his life.  Everything Iris did on AW was motivated by that obsession.  Take that away from her, and what is she?

I agree.  Furthermore, P&G and NBCD had spun off AW at least once before, and the results were mixed to say the least.  What convinced them and Paul Rauch that the second attempt would be more successful?

They eventually remedied that by Iris transferring that obsessive love over onto her son Dennis and her initial disapproval over his relationship with Dawn.  So she has Dawn's older sister Paige help her break them up, then Paige turns around and marries Dennis.   Thus Iris becomes the mother in law from hell.

She kind of reverts back to the nicer Iris as she leaves the soap.. even briefly helping her nieces Lacey and Brette before she moves to New York to run the Alex Wheeler foundation.

Ironically, the show found it's footing creatively once Iris/Dennis/Elliot leave the soap.. but the viewers didn't want to stick around with Iris gone so the ratings dipped drastically.

10 minutes ago, Khan said:

I think so, too.  Just as I think expanding TD to sixty minutes was worth a try in order to save the show.  If P&G and NBCD really wanted to spin off AW again, then they should've used Victoria Wyndham/Rachel.  Maybe create a new, half-hour serial that followed her to a new town after her and Mac's marriage blew up over Janice or something.

That's a good idea. AW would have been hurt without Rachel but at least she could have carried a soap (and the show doesn't really know what to do with Rachel in the early '80s anyway).

I've often wondered what if Blaine had been spun off into her own storyline? Given that, she was more naturally associated with western culture.

Picture this: she’s just been exonerated of murder, ready for a clean slate. She and Sandy decide to leave their troubles behind and relocate to Houston, where they buy a local TV station.

 

Just now, j swift said:

I've often wondered what if Blaine had been spun off into her own storyline? Given that, she was more naturally associated with western culture.

Picture this: she’s just been exonerated of murder, ready for a clean slate. She and Sandy decide to leave their troubles behind and relocate to Houston, where they buy a local TV station.

That could have worked, although if she had just been moved over to Texas it may have been too late. I do think Laura Malone could have carried her own show.

I watched an hour's worth of scenes with Lisby Larsen and Beverlee McKinsey fighting and it was riveting. I wanted more. They were excellent sparring partners. I don't know if Larsen was on AW before Texas or what happened after MCKinsey left, but I would have tuned in every day just to see these two.