KNOTS LANDING

[te.]

Yeah, the only one that came close was 2000 Malibu Road and they screwed that up by not securing the cast and crew into contracts and instead having to re-negotiate everything if they wanted more. In an ideal world they could've rushed out more episodes by midseason and put it in Knots's time slot away from the Fox soaps while they took a break to prepare for the series finale in March 1993.

But then again, why they later didn't at least try to salvage Central Park West by moving it into the 10PM slot when Fox was doing everything to destroy it (airing a double season premiere of BH90210, airing Melrose's 100th episode etc) is beyond me.

[Khan]

Same.  CBS clearly wanted Darren Star to do for them what he'd done for FOX with 90210 and MP.  At the very least, I would have asked Michael Filerman and/or David Jacobs to come in, work with Star and see how they could merge Star's style with the network's more traditional needs, so that it would have a greater chance of developing an audience.

[Soaplovers]

1. I do agree that Jill's demise should have started the slow process of reuniting Gary and Val.  I never thought Gary ever earned Val at all.  He was into rescuing her, but he didn't value her.

2. The one or two positive things of the bad 1st half of season 13 were Gary and Val fighting over him mortgaging the ranch for the Tidal Waves project..since it was in character and showed that the issues that caused their break up in season 3/4 were still apparent (he was a risk taker, she was too cautious).

Also, Val and Kate started becoming close at the start of season 13...so it made sense once Val passed away that Gary would turn to Kate.  And Val's speech about Kate being the one she would want Gary to move on with..could have worked in a dream sequence between Gary and Val.

[FrenchBug82]

I think ultimately resurrecting Val was the right call - especially since it is my understanding it wasn't a last minute decision because the show was cancelled but that they knew this was likely the last season so they had pencilled it in all along.

I think Abby was a considerably more interesting mate for Gary - toxic as they also were - but I understand why for sentimental reasons Gary/Val had to be the end game.

Finally my unpopular opinion is that I don't regret the Danny Waleska story? It certainly was full of contrivances and didn't do wonder for my respect for the characters but damn if Sam Behrens wasn't so great in the role and I was interested in him getting his comeuppance.
And I will never not applaud KL for the completely out-of-the-blue almost mundane way they had him get the "secret" of the twin paternity out. 

 

[Chris B]

I’m going to have to look for Angel Falls and Orleans, but 2000 Malibu Rd was amazing and deserved a longer run. I’ve read it’s ratings were good but something behind the scenes caused it to end. It was such a unique story for a prime time soap. And another one with a Knots connection!

[kalbir]

Knots Landing had one season in the Top 10 (1984/85), one season in the Top 15 (1983/84), two seasons in the Top 20 (1982/83, 1985/86), four seasons in the Top 30 (1979/80, 1980/81, 1986/87, 1988/89), and six seasons below the Top 30 (1981/82, 1987/88, 1989/90 to 1992/93). Also remember that Knots Landing had time slot competition from critically acclaimed Hill Street Blues and L.A. Law, and a brief period it had time slot competition from Top 10 sitcoms Cheers and Night Court. If Knots Landing was able to last further into the 1990s, it would've been clobbered by ER.

CBS's attempt at new primetime soaps in the 1990s (2000 Malibu Road, Angel Falls, Hotel Malibu, Second Chances, Central Park West, Four Corners) didn't work and CBS hasn't attempted a primetime soap since. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by kalbir

[te.]

Yeah, I really think that the first 13 episodes before Darren Star was booted in favour of Camille Marchetta is a great prime time soap that only failed because it was on the wrong network. Had it been on Fox I feel it would've succeeded. But I think maybe pushing it to a generational saga with the Fairchilds at the front and center, maybe amp up the mystery what happened to Linda's husband (did Allen off him?), maybe instead of Nikki they could've had the woman Allen had an affair with be the older "unhip" former editor that got replaced by Stephanie at Communique. That would've expanded the older character's storyline a bit and maybe made it more appealing for the older audience, while still keeping youth appeal with Stephanie, Carrie, Peter, Mark, Alex etc.

And of course, not airing it in the 8/9PM slot against the Fox soaps.

[Khan]

It also would have helped to land a bigger "name" than Mariel Hemingway, lol.

[FrenchBug82]

Not to diverge the KL thread too much but, on the other hand, landing a lot of big names didn't help the second "season" which was also considerably less interesting on the merits.
 

[Soaplovers]

The start of the end of KL.

Laura kept Abby in check, Abby kept Karen in check, while neither Laura nor Abby enabled Val like Karen did.

This final scene clearly showed Abby would always come out on top.  She wasn't OTT like Alexis nor Angela nor had a one track mind like JR.

She was someone you might run into in your day to day life.  And she was one that schemed and worked her way to the top coming from a working class family.

 

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Edited February 22, 2022 by Soaplovers

[BetterForgotten]

I would have honestly been fine with the show ending with the departure of Donna Mills. She was right for feeling they had done all they could with Abby, and it was time to move on. So many aging actresses would not have been confident enough to admit that.

[Khan]

Well, if you think about it, Abby's arc had reached its' natural conclusion.  She started out as a recently divorced woman, willing to do just about anything to improve her lot in life and those of her children as well; and by hook or crook, she achieved it.

As it was, Abby was beginning to repeat herself.  If she had stayed, one of two things would have happened: either she lost it all and had to start all over again, or she would have had to outdo herself with even more outrageous stunts to remain on top.  The former option sounds intriguing, but with the latter, you run the risk of turning Abby into the kind of one-note villain that hampered the other nighttime soaps -- and part of Abby's appeal, after all, was that she wasn't one-note.

[FrenchBug82]

My sense is that DM probably sensed it with the way the Murakame scam was written. It is hard to know what was planned all along and what was a rewrite - whether she knew oil had been found early or later can give two different interpretations of the plot - but the entire business of planting drugs was a tad more criminal than what Abby was supposed to be about.
The entire beauty of the twin kidnapping was that she didn't ask for it and would never have had because her evil was about manipulating and screwing people over for money - not physical harm. She didn't mind stepping back and take advantage of what others could do but she didn't get her hands dirty in the gutter.

To me the drug-planting was already taking it up a notch in the evil scale and in a less interesting more dirty-JR kind of way, not Abby as we had come to appreciate her
So the seeds were already there and I can't help but think the poor writing for her that season - including on the other side of the out-of-character scale, the dreadful Michael York story  - probably presaged to her what you accurately diagnose for Abby.

[Soaplovers]

Thinking about it, Lotus Point was Abby's baby in season 5.  She was going to build a huge complex without telling Gary, plus not tell Karen she inherited half the property when Sid died.

At the start of season 6, Gary took over how it would run and included Karen.  Hence the parks,.cabin, etc.

So I could see Abby waiting for an opportunity to take back what was hers..hence the Murkame scam.  And when she knew she would get caught, she donated it as a preserve to cover her tracks.

I understand the motivation for her cutting Gary and Karen out of it..but the execution risked putting Abby into one note villain territory.

For all we know, Claudia showed what probably would have happened had Donna Mills not left when she did.

[Franko]

God, it's like watching two nuclear warheads get disarmed, but you don't immediately realize it.