Knots Landing

[DRW50]

That's probably for the best, as I guess saying that unless you know the person isn't a great idea (or unless you're at some fan event).

[EricMontreal22]

You can also find a low quality torrent pretty easily of Season 3 from SoapNet (that's how I watched it). I really wish they'd start doing DVDs again--even DVD on Demand type things... (not sure how far they got with Falcon Crest in that format, but...)

[BKuzak]

I wasn't either. But i wasn't a big fan of most of the episodes in those early years. I just watched for Kenny. I hated how Richard turned Laura from a pretty nice lady in that first season into someone who was never very happy...not even when she was with Sumner did she seem that happy with her life. Richard destroyed her and then Karen welcomed him back with open arms for Laura's funeral. yuck! I agreed with Abby when she told him off.

I also hated when Diana was such a brat during the Chip era. You would think someone who had Karen as a mother and Sid as a father would have been a little smarter and less bratty. Michael had his moments but he was nothing like Diana. I still say she should have been the one killed with the pitch fork instead of Chip. Chip should have died when Lilimae ran him over.

[Vee]

I wish I'd had SN when it was airing.

[juppiter]

I hate it too. It was so scripted, so affected, so very Latham/Lechowick. Michelle Lee liked those years -- and why wouldn't she? All of Karen's imperfections were washed away and she became a Renaissance woman. Give me early seasons Karen any day. She was an opionated loudmouth but at the same time a good wife/mother. Both modern and traditional and truly unique. In the later seasons she becomes the antithesis of what she was -- she becomes a judgmental pollyanna reactionary shrew instead of the progressive force to behold that she was in the first 5 seasons. The pure perfect Karen/Mack of the Lechowick years are at best boring and at worst gag-worthy for me.

a

[juppiter]

The thing about Michele Lee as an actress is she can go over-the-top very easily. I love her to death and she is one of a kind but I don't think moments like the Pollyanna speech are written to her strengths.

[DRW50]

I still liked Karen (unlike Mac, who I grew to loathe and I never went back), but yes. I hated that side of Karen. I don't think it helped that she was given Laura's child. I know the reason for that (Greg is a dashing billionaire, he doesn't need stories about a toddler), but it still annoyed me.

I don't remember who was writing the show by then but I was just tired of it. I don't think Karen should have been the "everywoman" character. I think that was Val, before she became a huge dumbass.

If I don't stop I'm going to end up ranting about that vigilante story in season 13.

[BKuzak]

I still think the show should have ended when Donna Mills left. She made the show the sucess of what it was. and if you notice, now in the flashbacks/specials or whatever, they pretty much only show the Donna Mills years (granted it's the bulk but they had a season before and four seasons after.) and she was the best looking woman of the 1980's. I guess it depends on your taste but i'm in the majority.

and they never gave her any silly stories like they did with Karen and (especially) Valene. even in the early years they had her almost remarry her exhusband because he was trying to keep her kids from her but she ended up getting out of that somehow and later said, "Nobody hurts me and gets away with it." she had a lot of great storylines like Olivia's drug problem and who killed Peter Holister. Remember when she burried him and her skirt hardly got dirty. and even at the end when everyone found out she was "morikime" the company who bought Lotus Point. She ended up getting on the stage and saying she would donate the land. great stories.

[DRW50]

I liked some of the show after Abby left. I was sort of happy she left because Latham had NO IDEA how to write for Abby and I was so proud of Donna for, without naming names, saying this when she left the show.

I thought season 11 was OK, although sluggish (Tom and his story were huge bores). I thought season 12 was a good season, sometimes very good, especially with delicious Linda Fairgate, and Claudia when she was nasty but not full scale monstrous.

The end of season 12/start of season 13 wrecked everything.

Edited January 24, 2013 by CarlD2

[EricMontreal22]

Did David Jacobs stay creatively involved throughout the series? He seemed more connected to it than to Dallas (partly I assume as he created it first). Also what years was Ann Marcus showrunner for (if the show ever had a showrunner--aside from Dynasty and the Pollocks turning it into a "daytime soap on speed" to quote Schemering in the second season, but I'm not sure how long they lasted--for some reason it's hard to find credited head writers back then).

[Soaplovers]

I think the fact that people were remarking how good season 12 was showcases how strong the foundation of the show was. I think had the show bought in strong replacements after Latham and co. left, then I do think the show might have been strong enough to make it to season 15.

The one thing about Knots Landing that the other soaps lacked, was the ability to change/adapt with the times. I always viewed the show in three stages (cul de sac era, Lotus Point Era, and Sumner Group era) and each era had its strengths and weaknesses. The only character I could have seen fitting into all three eras would have been Abby, imho. She left just as the show was going into the third stage, but I certainly could have seen her getting a share of Sumner in the divorce... and working alongside Paige/Greg

The intriguing character for me was Val, since she really didnt fit into the Lotus Point/Sumner Group eras... yet had some compelling story lines especially during the Lotus Point era.

[Khan]

Yes, in a way. Jacobs always had final say-so on stories, casting and such. However, as Lynn Marie Latham and Bernard Lechowick ascended the pecking order, they were handed more power, resulting in major changes in pacing and editing as the show moved forward. Then, John Romano came in (to replace Larry Kasha, who had died the previous season) and everything came unglued, forcing Jacobs to stop production while he and Michael Filerman figured out how to get the show back on-track. (According to an interview with knotslanding.net, Jacobs knew the show was in trouble when the waitresses at a diner he frequented stopped talking about the show.) That was when Filerman brought in Ann Marcus, who had worked with him at LOVE IS A MANY SPLENDORED THING. (Marcus was the HW, while Filerman worked as an exec for CBSD.) Marcus had been responsible for the Ciji Dunne story during S4, when she and husband Ellis were story editors.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Khan

[DRW50]

I always thought it was ironic they used Laura's past to revive the show in season 13, given the way they'd dumped her.

[EricMontreal22]

Thanks Khan! I really should look more into the history. I've seen about half of season 4 (and very little since--grrr), but I liked Marcus' contribution to that season (I assume it was hers).

I've seen more, but have less interest in Dallas--but didn't they have major troubles when their longtime producer died too?

Edited January 24, 2013 by EricMontreal22

[Khan]

True, but look at who was using it: Ann Marcus, who probably was the last writer to give Laura (and Constance McCashin) a substantial amount of story.