Knots Landing

[Khan]

I think Richard finally (and very reluctantly) accepted the fact that he was never going to be the business titan that he had always dreamed of being.  In fact, I see him leaving Knots Landing, starting over in some small town in NorCal, maybe even hanging up his proverbial shingle again as a "storefront lawyer."

Edited September 8, 2024 by Khan

[Chris B]

I just finished my season 3 re-watch. This is a season that I've always had an issue with. I previously blamed the amount of stand-alone episodes, but considering how much I enjoyed them in my season 1 & 2 re-watch, I decided to go in with a more open mind this time. The only one that I felt was truly bad an unnecessary was Silver Shadows. 

The biggest failure of this season was not finding anything interesting for Ginger and Kenny to do. They're lucky to have made it to season four considering they were so superfluous here. I enjoyed watching Karen try to move on and date. I also liked that they kept the kids involved and didn't let their grief be forgotten. Abby being Sid's sister was also critical to her being a character that worked long term. When Joe arrived I feel like the family finally came together in their post-Sid era.

Of course everybody knows how masterful the Abby/Gary/Val triangle was so I won't go into detail about that, but this season was incredible for Laura and Richard. Richard is such a weasel that I can understand why some viewers might not have time for him. His friendship with Karen helped ground him and I felt like the most compelling story this season was his decent into disrepair. He was always a flawed man, but seeing him finally come to terms with Laura's ambitions and find a new job only for it to be the same ole mess he always falls into. Night was probably one of the Top Ten best hours this show ever had. At the end when Richard put the gun to his head was heartbreaking.

Laura and Richard are both flawed, very tragic characters, but I loved watching them. I know Greg/Laura were popular, but I don't think they were nearly as interesting which is why Laura ended up sidelined and was so easy to write off. 

John Pleshette should've won an Emmy for season 3. I believe this is the season Michele Lee was nominated, but he should've been right there next to her.

[Khan]

Oh, I definitely agree.  Rushing Karen into a new relationship after Sid's death would have been a HUGE mistake.  And I also agree with those who say that year was probably one of Michele Lee's best on the show, if not THE best.  

 

I agree.  In S3, KL found itself at a bit of a loss, as Don Murray's exit and Jim Houghton and Kim Lankford's reduced importance have laid waste to KL's original "Scenes from a Marriage" concept.  Now, it's pretty much the widow Fairgate and her three kids; Richard and Laura and their drama; Gary and Val and Abby and THEIR drama; Multiple Tony Winner Julie Harris doing her best Grandma Walton routine; and the only things that are holding it all together are that damn car dealership and Val's book (and I have to say, I've never fully embraced the idea of Val possessing writing talent, even though plenty of story came from it).

I'm not suggesting S3 was awful - there's still plenty of good stuff there, especially in the last third - but it definitely was teetering, lol.

Peter Dunne and his team faced three enormous challenges at DALLAS: 1) the BTS conflict between Larry Hagman and Philip Capice, which ultimately resulted in Capice leaving the show and Leonard Katzman (and Hagman) regaining control; 2) the hard push to make DALLAS more glamorous in order to compete with DYNASTY; and 3) the fact that they didn't have the level of acting talent that they had had at KL.  As much as I enjoyed watching the dream season, I can also see why, in retrospect, Dunne and Co. were doomed to fail.

[Khan]

Kenny and Ginger felt superfluous to me even during the Ciji Dunne storyline, and that one was centered around the music industry, lol!

But seriously.  The producers made the same mistake with the Wards that countless other producers and writers on soaps have made with pairings that aren't interesting: they saddled Kenny and Ginger with a kid, as if a baby would generate story for them.  (Guess what?  It never does).

Frankly, I would've killed off little Erin Molly ASAP, had Ginger suffer a total breakdown and end up in an institution, and the last thing you would've heard about Kenny was that he was living out of his van and he had taken up with an 18-year-old, lol!

[soapfan770]

Possibly. Pleshette does a great job of playing the tragic nature of the character, but otherwise Richard as a character is such a weak man with an inferiority complex he comes off as always unlikeable for me, although I think JP does great with the material. 

As far as male characters on Knots goes Mack was always my favorite.
 

I agree with @Chris B‘s sentiment about Annie Fairgate a couple pages back. I think the show could’ve easily brought her back, especially with a decent recast as obviously Karen Allen would be unavailable. I thought Annie was more interesting than Diana anyways lol. 

 

 

[SoapDope]

Just some season 3 & 4 observations.

When Val wrote her book about the Ewing's " I don't remember any of the Ewing's on Dallas ever mentioning her book at all. 

Val started a relationship with producer Jeff Munson that never really went anywhere.

Chip was so creepy. Too bad he didn't off Diana too.

I can take Lilimae in small doses. There are times I want to strangle her. 

Richard implying Ciji and Laura were lesbians and asking which gets to be the man was pretty controversial for 1982 CBS TV.

Val & Gary's shouting at each other over confessing to Ciji's death was both hilarious and intense. 

Abby is like a cat, she makes sure she is comfortable at all times. 

Kevin Dobson is like an angry bulldog chewing scenery and barking lines. There are times I like his character and there are times I can't stand him. It depends on the scene or storyline. 

 

[Soaplovers]

Kenny/Ginger had two arcs going into season 3 with becoming first time parents.. and also Ginger realizing that she wanted more then just to be a stay at home mom.

I think the mini arc in episode 11 and 12 with Kenny/Ginger was the most effort the writers put into the couple that season with Lillimae used as comic relief with her constantly bugging Kenny to represent her.

After season 3 episode 12, it seemed as though Kenny/Ginger were more extras then actual characters on the show.  I think partly due to the more soapy/exciting elements going on with Abby/Gary/Val, Richard/Laura, and Karen's grief.  It reminded me of Melrose Place season 1 where Rhonda and Matt were put on the sideline when that show went more soapy though at least in that case, Rhonda was given a C story that gave her a happy ending.

 

[Chris 2]

I don’t believe the Dallas Ewings ever mentioned Valene’s book. But JR was certainly aware of it and didn’t care, which made Sue Ellen’s tell-all movie storyline in the later years all the more ridiculous. The Ewings weren’t these old-monied blue bloods who were trying to keep up appearances in that way. They had seen their fair share of scandal over the years (Digger trying to kill Jock, Jock being arrested for murder, Cliff claiming paternity of John Ross, JR being shot, etc) and knew how to power through it. I don’t think they would have been fazed by Val’s little roman à clef.

I pretty much agree with everything else you said re: Mack, Lilimae, the lesbian reference. Jeff Munson seemed to be involved with everyone for awhile and then he just vanished.

 

[Chris B]

They should've killed Ginger's mom and had Ginger adopt those two bad ass sisters of hers. They could've had a love triangle with Eric and have one of them get pregnant which could've created drama with Karen. Kenny just needed to go though. I find it sad that he is the reason the show decided to write her off. I'm not sure why they were so intent on them being a unit. She could've moved on with Joe or any number of the men on the show.

[SoapDope]

Jon Cypher (Jeff) who played Jeff was also a regular on Hill Street Blues and recurring on Dynasty during the 80's. I wonder if KL ever offered him a permanent role to stay or if it was agreed he would be temporary since he seemed to have a full plate ?

The following season (5) Ben shows up. If David Ackroyd (Gary #1) hadn't guest starred as Bill Medford on KL previously, I think it would have been interesting to have cast him as Ben. The battle of the Gary's over Val would have been awesome.

[Reverend Ruthledge]

I remember JR calling it "Crude Porn" and "Cornpone" when he was over at Valene's house. I found that amusing. I always enjoyed JR and Valene's scenes together. 

[j swift]

 

You bring up an interesting point.  After the public humiliation of being in a mental institution, brought up on federal charges for his South China Sea deal, and accused of murder at least twice, one would think JR wouldn't be so threatened by a roman à clef. 

[SoapDope]

Yes. Years before ATWT James did " Hello Barbara".....Dallas J.R. did " Hello Valene" Some of their scenes were hilarious. I remember on Dallas when Val returned to see Lucy, J.R. shows up at Val's motel room. 

J.R.: " Hello Valene"

Val: " How did you find me" ?

J.R.: "Well, when I found out you were back in town. I had some of my people check out some of the cheaper motels. I figured you were living the lifestyle you were accustomed to. Well, Sure enough here you are"......LOL

I also laughed when J.R. visited the cul-de-sac in season 1 of KL and Val was running around giving him refreshments (coffee, ice tea, tuna fish sandwich) even though she hates his guts. He also breaks it off in them several times about the house.

J.R.: "The house is so pretty, and the best part is Mama's making the mortgage payments for you".

J.R:" I guess your Mama's finances are a laughing matter since she bought you this nice house here in California". " Everything here is pretty as a picture"

I think he throws it up again a third time telling them just because they have that nice house and their little domestic set up doesn't mean he won't break them up again.

[kalbir]

I think JR/Val last interaction was during the Dallas crossover episode involving Jock's will. Val has a book signing that JR shows up to and he tells her that he owns the publishing rights to her book.

[Khan]

I dunno, I've always been partial to Greg - the once-idealistic politician who learned that ideals alone don't get the job done - myself.  I loved the Tracy/Hepburn-like energy between William Devane and Constance McCashin, too.  That [!@#$%^&*] got me right in my comfort zone, lol.

 

I've wondered that myself.  There aren't too many roles that I don't love Jon Cypher in.  Hell, I even suffered through "Major Dad" for him, lol.  But it does seem like maybe there had been bigger plans for Jeff that somehow got truncated due to JC's availability.

I agree!  KL got a lot of story from Val's book, but it really didn't make sense for J.R. to be so concerned about it.  Then again, as I've mentioned before, I've never understood how KL came to the idea of making Val a writer in the first place.  At the very least, I see her writing books for children and young adults, since she loved babies so much.  But writing what amounted to be a potboiler in the same fashion as Jacqueline Susann just didn't work for me.

 

Suddenly, I'm getting an image in my head of Ginger and Val vying for Ben's attention, with "poor Val" caught in not one but TWO love triangles at the same time, lol.