KNOTS LANDING

[SoapDope]

Val's cancer story should have been held off till they went full soap. They could have spent a season building a decent story. One thing that was surprising was it being colon cancer. Val said they discovered it when she had a hard time getting pregnant. It would have made more sense if it had been uterine or some other gynecological cancer. It could have been written it was discovered when she was pregnant with the twins and refuses to terminate her pregnancy for treatment. 

[Paul Raven]

I noticed Kale Browne played Paul Fairgate in S2. Was he Sid's brother/nephew?

We also had Mrs Cunningham (Abby's mother in law) and Sid' ex wife.

All had potential to return at some point but seemed to be forgotten.

And Ginger had 2 sisters?

[Chris B]

Paul was Sid's nephew. When it comes to Fairgate's, the biggest missed opportunity for me was not bringing back Annie at some point.

Ginger did have 2 sisters, but I feel like both were duds. Perhaps an interesting story could've been if Ginger's mom died and she adopted her sisters. That may have been more interesting than her stuff with Kenny. 

One relative that I absolutely loved was Karen's brother Joe. I hated when he left. He had chemistry with everyone and had so much potential as a leading man.

[Khan]

For sure, I would've had Val's cancer recur during S13, when it was obvious the show didn't know what to do with her and Gary.  Imagine: Gary and Val finally reunite after so many years apart, and then - WHAM! - they're blindsided with the news of her diagnosis, and the likely possibility of her dying.  And you have Kate there, helping Val take care of the twins and preparing everyone for her dying, which lays the true groundwork for a Gary/Kate romance that comes down the road.

[kalbir]

@Khan That would have made a good exit story for Joan Van Ark instead of what we got.

[Khan]

Don't quote me on this, but my understanding was that the cul-de-sac and surrounding area were built shortly after WWII, as the soldiers were returning home, and their families were expanding and moving into the suburbs.

Your idea of Ginger and Kenny as siblings rather than husband-and-wife sounds intriguing, @All My Shadows.  It certainly would've created more variety in the storytelling, which I'm always big on, lol.

Yeah, I didn't care for JVA's exit either.  It seemed to undo a lot of their tentative plans for S14, even though they did a reasonably good job making up for it.  From what I understand, however, that was a particularly sticky situation on both sides.  JVA co-starred in a pilot for a half-hour series on NBC, and Filerman and Jacobs more-or-less forced her to choose between waiting for the pilot to be picked up (which it didn't) or staying with KL, because (as they said) they couldn't really move forward with anything if her availability was up in the air.  And while I could understand why JVA chose the pilot over KL - by S13, Val was pretty much spent as a character - I also think her choice was unfortunate, because Ann Marcus' idea to have her work on Greg Sumner's biography could've been the best storyline that JVA had had since God-knows-when.

I kinda suspect that the plan was for Joe to assume the mantle of Cooper/Fairgate family patriarch and bring in more male viewers - something Kevin Dobson and Mack would do the next season - but that Stephen Macht might've been too much for the producers to handle.  (I have no insider info about this, just a gut feeling that Macht was/is a difficult person to work with, judging by how often he's written off of different shows).

Edited September 6, 2024 by Khan

[Khan]

Forgot to add: I also would've had Julie Harris return as Lilimae - if not during S13, as Val battles what would have turned out to be a losing battle with cancer, then during the next season, as she'd want to be there to help Gary raise the twins.  And yes, there would've been tension between Lilimae and Kate, as Lilimae would've seen Kate as some pretty young thing trying to take her Sweetpea's place, but I think she would've come around in the end.  Then, depending on whether Harris would've been interested in staying on, I would've had her and Al (Red Buttons) move to a nearby "retirement village," where they could remain close to Gary, Kate and the twins.

[Vee]

They also would not have gotten the same juice from Joe and Stephen Macht that they got from Dobson, or from a new central love story for Karen. And I liked Joe a lot and have always been fond of Macht.

[Chris 2]

On “Dallas”, Ellie told Gary and Val to pick a house that Bobby had been developing during his time in construction. So that would lead us to believe that Seaview Circle was a relatively new development. But when Knots proper started, it was clear that the other residents had been living there for a while.

Another topic: Kenny is a complete ass. He quits his job as Ciji’s producer, and then shows up the next day and tries to pretend he didn’t quit, a la George Costanza from “Seinfeld.”

[Soaplovers]

The one thing I noticed about the first 3.5 seasons before the show went full on soap was that Val was a lot more reasonable and intelligent.  Once Cijji was killed, so was Val's dignity because all of a sudden she became all about Gary and how he was her addiction.. even though she lived a productive life during the times she and he were not together.

[SoapDope]

I think there is an episode later in the series where Karen mentions (I think to Pat Williams) as living in the cul-de-sac for like 10 or 11 years which places her as moving in around 1978-1979. Gary & Val arrived in 79. On Dallas Bobby mentions a real estate deal to Miss Ellie he made last year (which would have been 78) in the Gary & Val wedding episode and hands her the stack of photos. Then when he shows them the house in the tag scene he mentions having minor repairs done so they can quickly move in about a week or two.

I think the houses in the cul-de-sac are 1970's era built houses. 

[Vee]

I know! This cracked me up.

Whereas I don't think Val came into her own until leaving Gary. In the first three seasons she was much more at his feet. Her crowning moment that starts this, besides getting into her career as a novelist, was her confronting Gary in jail at the end of S4 and tearing him apart, telling him sacrificing himself for Ciji re: guilt over their marriage accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I think the Val in S4 and S5 is much stronger and more sure of herself. She knows what Gary is to her but she works to move past it.

[Broderick]

I just streamed Episode 4 (Season 1) "The Lie", and I can't even say how impressed I was with the entire episode.  Couldn't take my eyes off the screen.  The closing shot of the strange man lighting Laura's cigarette (after another strange man lit her cigarette in a bar a few days earlier and led to a tangled-up passel of lies) is a masterpiece of sad irony.  

If this is the kind of stuff David Jacobs and Michael Filerman were wanting to do with Knots Landing -- I think they were almost ahead of their time.   

[Vee]

Laura evolves and changes a lot over the first three seasons (and then more when she meets Greg Sumner), but she stays a character who keeps her own counsel and marches entirely to her own beat. And yes, I love that episode.

[Chris B]

He had a really good handle on how to do those self contained episodes. I feel they were more successful at it than Dallas or Dynasty. I'm sure his experience on Family helped there. He had another show called Married: The First Year (with Constance McCashin) which I'd love to see. It seems to be impossible to find though.