In retrospect, I wonder about the creative choice to make Winter go mad? 

It has been said that EON had a tradition that justice would always be served, so I guess Winter could not have maintained a life in Montecello and a relationship with Logan, if she was a murderer.  However, the madness absolves her from any malice in the killing of Wade.  Winter was not a cunning woman who plotted to murder Wade in order to get away from his constant threats, nor did she act in self-defense fearing a physical threat from Wade.  Yet, as I recall, there was no foreshadowing to her decent into madness during the trial, nor was there any obvious indication that she was lying.  So, I guess, given the times, madness was the only acceptable excuse. 

It also makes Logan's closing theory about the fur collar in the videotape a very lucky observation, because the witness testimony from Wade's nosy neighbors was hardly the only evidence that Mike and Draper had against Winter.

Edited July 13, 20223 yr by j swift

On 7/3/2022 at 11:03 AM, TVFAN1144 said:

I always thought Bay City was Michigan and Somerset was a suburb of Detroit

Before 1982 Bay City was anywhere or nowhere. It just was never stated. Then, in 1982 someone decided to place it & they put it outside of Chicago, in Ilinois just like all the other towns in Irna Phillip universe - Oakdale, Springfield, Henderson, Somerset, I'm blank, but there are a few more.

6 minutes ago, Tonksadora said:

Before 1982 Bay City was anywhere or nowhere. It just was never stated. Then, in 1982 someone decided to place it & they put it outside of Chicago, in Ilinois just like all the other towns in Irna Phillip universe - Oakdale, Springfield, Henderson, Somerset, I'm blank, but there are a few more.

Why would Henderson be a part of the Irna Phillip's universe? Irna didn't create it.Agnes Nixin ( her protoge ) did head write and may have helped to create it but Roy Winsor and Irving Vendig was there at the beginning too.

1 hour ago, ClassicsSoapFan said:

Why would Henderson be a part of the Irna Phillip's universe? Irna didn't create it.Agnes Nixin ( her protoge ) did head write and may have helped to create it but Roy Winsor and Irving Vendig was there at the beginning too.

Well, now that you say that, I'm not sure. They are supposed to be representative of the bedroom communities around Cincinnatti, home of P&G. But that again comes back to the same spot. I am betting right now, even thought this is off the top of my head, that it's an error & it should be removed from the list. This is interesting. In fan lore things come up sometimes that are just simple mistakes that got in somehow & it takes awhile before someone notices it & fixes it. Thnx for bringing this up. I'm glad I posted about Irna's universe today. It's always a good day to catch a glitch!

14 hours ago, Vee said:

Yeah, I know one of her soap roles did that but I didn't know which one. Cardille was tough as nails in Day of the Dead, so seeing her on a soap is interesting for me; she is not a glamourpuss or conventional heroine/villain.

Based on promo pics, it sounded like she was more like a tortured 40s film noir character.  A life of hard knocks..and she and Raven sparred alot due to Logan.

I do agree she was tough as nails in Day of the Dead..and atypical of female leads in 80s horror movies. It's probably why she has had lasting appeal in the horror movie genre.

Horror movie fans are as passionate as soap fans.  Shame 1978 episodes weren't available so we could see more of her work on EON.

8 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I do agree she was tough as nails in Day of the Dead..and atypical of female leads in 80s horror movies. It's probably why she has had lasting appeal in the horror movie genre.

Horror movie fans are as passionate as soap fans.  Shame 1978 episodes weren't available so we could see more of her work on EON.

Only a handful of soap stars have the crossover fanbase in horror, like Barbara Crampton (who has a very strong career in horror film/TV these days and really doesn't need to come back to daytime, though I wish she would). Kelli Maroney is known more for her beloved genre work while being reviled on daytime. Others like Kevin Spirtas, Scott Reeves, etc. have it and have done their share of appearances or BTS documentaries but aren't as visible. Horror fans never forget. It did my heart good when OLTL went off the air and Kassie DePaiva, who was so heartbroken about it, started doing more cons for Evil Dead II and was fully embraced.

I do wonder why Cardille never did more daytime, but I guess there was the stigma and I have no Idea if she even acts today.

Edited July 12, 20223 yr by Vee

24 minutes ago, Vee said:

Only a handful of soap stars have the crossover fanbase in horror, like Barbara Crampton (who has a very strong career in horror film/TV these days and really doesn't need to come back to daytime, though I wish she would). Kelli Maroney is known more for her beloved genre work while being reviled on daytime. Others like Kevin Spirtas, Scott Reeves, etc. have it and have done their share of appearances or BTS documentaries but aren't as visible. Horror fans never forget. It did my heart good when OLTL went off the air and Kassie DePaiva, who was so heartbroken about it, started doing more cons for Evil Dead II and was fully embraced.

I do wonder why Cardille never did more daytime, but I guess there was the stigma and I have no Idea if she even acts today.

Yeah, back when OLTL was on the air...a fan did ask about Evil Dead 2..and at the time she said it was her earliest experience..but didn't talk much about it...so I'm sure once soaps started dying, she embraced it more.

Just to clarify briefly (I know this is not the AW thread, so I won't go into elaborate detail), both Bay City (AW) and its spin-off Somerset were acknowledged ON AIR during the 1970s to be in Michigan. The state for Bay City later changed to Illinois without explanation. (Careless indifference to history by TPTB always vexes me.)

And, Somerset was mentioned as a town on The Edge of Night.    When Mke was working for the State Crime Commission (and was not seen for a number of months, to which the show attributed to his being in Capital City), there were thoughts that perhaps Laurie was in danger.   She was sent to Somerset to wait until the trouble with the loan sharking syndicate was over.

I have often felt (although I have been told that the original Somerset Bible called for Sam, Lahoma, Missy and Ricky to move there from Bay City) that Somerset was originally intended to be a spin-off show from The Edge of Night (rather than Another World).    The Edge of Night was higher rated than Another World at the time, and Henry Slesar had submitted a new soap opera based on spies to CBS (which was rejected).    Mr. Slesar even began writing Somerset during its first year (following the departure of the show's credited creator, Robert Cenedella).

Incidentally, several of the performers on Somerset (Alice Hirson, Edward Krenner, Ann Wedgeworth) had appeared earlier on The Edge of Night, but that has nothing to do with what I have posted above.

11 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

The state for Bay City later changed to Illinois without explanation. (Careless indifference to history by TPTB always vexes me.)

In 1982, someone placed it in Illinois. Supposedly the bedroom communities around Chicago represented the bedroom communities around Cincinnati, where P&G has its Headquarters. And, there was a visual one day in one of the shows of a young man on a motorcycle, standing at a crossroads, where signs pointed to some of the cities in the Irna Universe, like Bay City, Oakdale, Somerset, etc. One poster thought it was Carl T. Evans. It could have been Jake McKinnon.

Almost all of the Midwest settings were Illinois.   That’s fine but there are more Midwest states

21 hours ago, TVFAN1144 said:

Almost all of the Midwest settings were Illinois.   That’s fine but there are more Midwest states

They always kept it unknown for DOOL Salem, right?

 

59 minutes ago, Joseph said:

 

These episodes are first rate examples of how brilliant a writer Henry Slesar was in his day.  So many plot points were being sewn during these episodes that took the show into the next 12 months and beyond with this group of characters.  No soap could ever touch Henry's planning, plotting, breakdown ands scripts.  Casting was superb. Everyone had an identity. These were the days when the terrible sets (what was Erwin thinking!) had no bearing because the scripts and actors were so compelling.  The only downer was that Henry had to scrap Paige's character. Margaret Colin was a revelation.  I think P&G forced her and the brother out after the incest plot (amazing that Henry did this plot way before Kreizman on GL with Cassie and Reva's kids).  The writing for Calvin and his friendships with Steve and Deborah....classy and also unusual for P&G soaps that struggled with black characters for many years.  Superb!

2 hours ago, RavenWhitney said:

These episodes are first rate examples of how brilliant a writer Henry Slesar was in his day.  So many plot points were being sewn during these episodes that took the show into the next 12 months and beyond with this group of characters.  No soap could ever touch Henry's planning, plotting, breakdown ands scripts.  Casting was superb. Everyone had an identity. These were the days when the terrible sets (what was Erwin thinking!) had no bearing because the scripts and actors were so compelling.  The only downer was that Henry had to scrap Paige's character. Margaret Colin was a revelation.  I think P&G forced her and the brother out after the incest plot (amazing that Henry did this plot way before Kreizman on GL with Cassie and Reva's kids).  The writing for Calvin and his friendships with Steve and Deborah....classy and also unusual for P&G soaps that struggled with black characters for many years.  Superb!

He did It before Sons & Daughters too, Never thought a soap about Unknowing Twins falling in love could be so interesting and so Popular, 5 different versions made my my my people can be morbid