EastEnders: Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

I'd love to see Dan again. He was a wonderful character.

You're going to make me start blathering again. I hope you can share some of your thoughts too.

Highs were certainly:

- getting the show a lot of attention and buzz

- keeping the ratings at a decent to huge level

In terms of storytelling and results:

Highs:

- The Stax reveal. The story before and after the reveal episode stunk, but that episode packed a huge punch and was the perfect moment for a Christmas Day episode being sampled by a lot of new viewers.

- Bianca's return. The character isn't a patch on what she was the first time around, but Bianca brings a lot of history and on paper at least ties many disparate characters together. These ties were not highlighted until Carol returned but Carol wouldn't have returned if Bianca hadn't been there. The real highlight of Bianca's return was Patsy Palmer's work in the episode where she learned Tony had been abusing Whitney for years. That was a very powerful moment for Patsy and I'm sorry she was overlooked.

- Ronnie and Archie. Ronnie is a horribly written character and I continue to be shocked at the casual misuse and disregard this character has been through for most of her run, but you can't take your eyes off her. She represents the best and the worst of the Eastenders female character. And Archie...well, when the writing was there, he was a powerhouse. Larry Lamb was by far the best casting decision the show made in recent years.

- Zainab, Tamwar, and Ahmed Masood. They kick ass! I really can't put it any better than that. The first popular South Asian characters on the show in over a decade, and arguably more important to the canvas than the last popular characters, Sanjay and Gita. Tamwar is some of the best comic relief the show has had in years and Zainab and Ahmed effortlessly play comedy and drama, romance, everything.

- Giving Ian stories about his family and his history, and making him more than Phil's punching bag or the town joke.

- Making Jean Slater (relatively) sane and putting her in the Slater house was a brilliant idea.

Lows:

- For every season, (re)turn, (re)turn, (re)turn. The number of characters given mediocre to shockingly poor returns is surprising, especially for only a three year period. Suzy Branning. Janine. Clare. Nick. Sam. Steven Beale. Mad May. Billie. For someone who claims to love the show's history so much, you wouldn't know it from the results.

- Shamelessly exploiting social issues then not bothering to actually follow through. Whitney's sexual abuse has been made completely irrelevant so she can jump into bed with another relative. Christian has run through one stereotype after another and his relationship with Syed is, for a story that is supposedly about some sort of positive representation of a gay Muslim, actually a very, very negative view. And Steven's bipolar disorder was used to turn him into a psycho. How can we forget about Stacey being bipolar and then becoming a murderer and letting her boyfriend die for her crime, which was so awful the show actually had to have her say, "Don't blame my bipolar." Or the wonderful way that rape and sexual abuse by Archie were completely unexplored and just done for shock value.

- Endless baby stories.

- Mitchell mismanaging. Phil is now so empty a character that his alcoholism is used for comic relief and they have to keep pushing one kid after another on him and repeating stories about how he's a lousy father but gee he really tries. Roxy is a horrible, horrible character, in every way. Ronnie has been turned into a pariah and all of her major screen partners could give you splinters. Danny is hilariously terrible and seems to have been hired only for his hair. Billy lost his wife and kids for what exactly? Sam was completely ruined as a character in her return and became almost schizophrenic by the end. This family's sense of entitlement has never been higher and their entertainment value is at a low. They are not only nasty people, they are also very stupid people, and they continue to win because of their last name, nothing else.

- Bad comic relief. I mean BAD, BAD comic relief. Heather and Minty should be banished from Walford for good. Worst of all is that they expect us to also feel sorry for these weird and pathetic people. The handling of Heather has often been disturbing and unpleasant, especially the years with scene after scene of "She's such a pig, ha ha, what a fat slob/That's so mean when people call her that, poor Heather." Not even getting into the WTD mess, or Minty's relationships that never go anywhere other than in his big gob.

- Butchering of the Brannings, and I'm not talking about Ricky. One stunt after another in 2008, and they were all extremely damaging to the characters, especially Tanya. They clearly have no idea what to do with this character and she really should have been written out a long time ago. Instead, they keep her, but continue to make her look like a horrible, selfish mother.

- Bad pacing, which has bothered me for a long time now with Santer but was so highlighted this year there's no point for me to go into it again.

- PR stunts over storytelling quality, probably most exemplified in "Killer Lucas", a story they clearly have no real idea how to write, but hope that having him kill minor characters every so often is a way to get attention.

- Not building a future. For someone who has talked about how much EE's first teens meant to him, the casting and writing for the teens during Santer's tenure has been surprisingly weak. I've also been confused as to why, with a few exceptions, most of the teenage boys on the show are extremely passive and simpering while many of the girls are OTT and written as being so out of control that they try to murder their father, their grandmother, etc.

Edited April 10, 2010 by CarlD2

[BadBoy93]

ok here is my responce on that

thanks for replying by the way

I do agree that Dederick Santer definately gave the show more publicity and more notice than the last producers did.The ratings have gone up and its because of the promotion of the show and what stories would grab the viewers attention.

Now stories

The Stax storyline was the highlight of 2007.It went through the whole year with a good length of twists and turns.Max was meant to be potrayed as the villian and he certainly was.He was sneaky and manipulative in some ways.Stacey wanted more i guess from Bradley and i guess was never going to get it.I certainly enjoyed the wedding week and it gave us an expiration date with the camera.The reveal as you said was splendid viewing and will maybe be one of the best christmas episodes of the soap.But yeah the aftermath was not so great.The buried alive stuff was chessy and very over the top and when Max came back it was sort of swept under the rug.

Bianca`s return was well done.Whitney is a new favourite of mine,but this romance with Billie isn`t working for me.I didn`t like Todd either.I think he was a bit of a mommys boy.Carol`s return was well done too and i hope she sticks around.I am thinking maybe that Alan should come back as well and maybe The Jacksons/Brannings can become a super family and over take The Mitchells.

I disagree with you on Ronnie.I enjoy Ronnie a lot more than Roxy.Ronnie is a woman with her own authority and she can stand on her own two feet.Also i think Archie is one of the best EE villians in years.

The Masoods are an excellent family.I think they have finally came into their own but i hope they do not get overexposed on the show.The gay storyline is rounding up now so then i think The Masoods should get a rest and focus more on other storylines.

I am glad Ian is getting more air time and character development.But someone did say that "You Could Do Anything With Ian Beale" and that is slightly true.You can make him a man of gold or a sly villian.Whatever way it works.

I am not Jean Slater`s biggest fan but she has done well so far.

Here are the dissapointments

A lot of returns under DS were a blow.Suzy Branning was a blow up doll and had the words "Gold Digger" written on her forehead.Janine`s return was ok but nothing special.Claire Bates was ruined on EE.After seeing Gemma Bisex win acclaim for her performance on Claire Devine,DS thought "I`ll steal that success and launch it here".It never worked here because the story was just old and boring.I hope Kirkwood will bring her back and redeem the character.Nick`s was the worst.An evil child was cliche and the story was done 16 yrs before hand.Sam was not needed at all,it was just a ploy to get Ricky/Bianca back together.Steven`s storyline was ok but not amazing.It would have been better if Cindy Beale came back (I don`t buy her dying in hospital...i just don`t) but i guess i somewhat enjoyed it and would like to see Steven return again.May`s return was pointless and the explosion was better (All stunts under Santer sucked...the actual stunt happening and then awkward silence like a bad comedy) and of course Billie Jackson who just can`t stop being a moody bam.

The Social issues were ok but yeah i get your point.I really wish that The Whitney/Tony storyline got more time.It was rushed through for 3 months and then we never heard about it again.I could have seen this gone through half of 2009.Its a real shame because this was a good story.I think the bi polar story had great acting but was really it,just great acting.as for Syed/Christian.At first i wasn`t a fan of this story but now i am sort of getting into it even though it is coming to a conclusion very soon.

I do agree on the baby stories.They need to stop FFS

The Mitchells are a mess now after Archie went.Ronnie is moping about doing now,Roxy is drunk with power,Danny wants to be drunk with power,Peggy is behind the bar awkwardly trying to find something to do,Phil is trying to play happy families,Billy is trying to find "Love",Ben is jealous of Louise for no reason other than he is a pratt and Louise is either going to be a bad girl or has DID (Maybe Vicki can give her some tips as Jean Randolph) anyway yeah The Mitchells need sorting out.Give Glenda Peggy`s position as the new Matriarch and give this family something to do other than The Mitchell sisters chasing after Jack.

I don`t care about the comedy on EE.Heather is ok and Shirley is awesome.Zsa Zsa too.

The Brannings were butchered weren`t they.After Stax they turned Tanya into a psychopath and after that told us to sympthaise with her.So after burying his cheating husband alive you want us to like her? she then sleeps with Max and illegally YES ILLEGALLY take the kids away to another country without Max`s consent.Then Max gets run over and...I`ll go on and on but yeah your right Santer really screwed up this family but th rebuilding stages are beginning.

Pacing has been ok

Yeah i am also wondering where The Lucas Story is going.I hope they can keep it entertaining and then give it a natural conclusion.

The Teens I Like/Dislike

Lucy Beale - Loved her in recent years but the baby storyline was quite random (Like)

Peter Beale - He was wooden for many years but now he is getting better (Like)

Billie Jackson - Too bloody moody.Grow a smile once in a while (Dislike)

Ben Mitchell - I have a sitcom for him "Everybody Hates Ben" (Dislike)

Liam Butcher - Like him.Just do (Like)

Louise Mitchell - She has just arrived so we will give her a chance first (Like)

Bobby Beale - Hmmmmm Meh (Like)

Darren Miller - Is he a teen well if he is I have always seen him as "The Next Frank Butcher" due to him running the cars...i know its weird (Like)

Libby Fox - Bit annoying but ok at times (Like)

Abi Branning - Bit moody but still like her (Like)

Lauren Branning - Acting quite bad but i like the character (Like)

Jay Brown - Where the hell has Jay been.Really where has he been (Dislike)

Tamwar Masood - He is funny and is quite clevenly written (Like)

Whitney Dean - talented and has a bright future (Like)

Morgan Jackson King - Hate that annoying sprout (Dislike)

Tiffany Dean - She won the award because she was cute that was it ...but i like her (Like)

Jordan Johnson - Never really liked him (Dislike)

Zsa Zsa Carter - Love Zsa Zsa (Like)

Leon Small - Quite dull since E20 ended but i quite like him (Like)

Fatboy - .... i think he is ok (Like)

[DRW50]

The Masoods have barely been on the show in months.

I like Ronnie, she's certainly a lot better than Roxy, or most of the characters Santer created, but they have no idea what to do with her. She just mopes and mopes and suffers and it's hard to see a bright light for her because the idea of her having to go back to enabling her worthless sister is depressing.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I think the problems on EastEnders are very fixable if the time, attention, and development are devoted to them. More or less, it's the execution of these stories and characters that's the big problem.

Unlike Santer, Kirkwood's background is in storylining, so I'm interested in seeing what he does with the show from a story development standpoint. Also, I wonder how he'll execute all of the Santer storylines he'll be taking over from, since Santer's stories don't run out until September, well into Kirkwood's administration.

I guess we'll have to wait until September to really judge Kirkwoood's initial stages of material though.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner

[DRW50]

I was wondering...has there ever been a major soap friendship that completely disappeared, without any real reason, the way Roxy and Christian have disappeared? He was even going to raise her daughter at one point. Aside from a handful of scenes a few months ago where she hired him to work in the Vic (where he's never been seen since), they have barely interacted in a year and a half.

I was thinking about this because I read a comment at DS which criticized Amira for treating Christian like an accessory, and how she had never been a true friend to him, and all I could think was, "Sounds more like Roxy." Then I remembered they aren't even friends now.

[DRW50]

Louise Berridge talks about her stalker.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/article-1264490/Louise-Berridge-reveals-real-life-drama-My-stalker-lose-plot.html

[DRW50]

So this is why the slaps on Eastenders look so fake now.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/soaps/2929941/BBC-health-and-safety-chiefs-ban-slapping-on-EastEnders.html

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I enjoyed some things about Monday's show...

I liked seeing Dot, Pat, and Peggy actually doing more than greeting people.

Poor June Brown has to prop that albatross Billie/Devon Anderson, though. But it was nice seeing Dot in various scenes with various characters.

Zainab buying sex toys for Amira was hilarious. :lol: :lol:

I actually felt a little emotion with those final scenes between Jack, Dot, and Jim. Seeing Jim break down was sad.

I have a soft spot for Ben, and it was hard watching those girls beat him up and make fun of him. Poor Ben.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner

[DRW50]

I had some issues with Jim being put in that scene with Jack, because I felt like they were using John Bardon's real life health problems to generate sympathy for Jack's injuries that will probably be gone before the leaves begin falling off the trees. At least Scott Maslen was better then usual.

The show really seems to think that we will see Billie as a victim.

This was the best material Dot's had in a long time, it was nice to see her in a role beyond frail old woman.

The election story with Pat and Peggy is very rushed. I also thought it made Pat look very addled, because she told Peggy to run for office and gave Peggy her ideas, then became angry when Peggy used the ideas to do what Pat wanted. The whole thing is so contrived. Is it wrong of me to say I have never been a big fan of the Pat/Peggy relationship?

They should be a little less subtle about Ronnie's story and have her walk around in a plastic bubble.

Fatboy -- remember the old sitcoms that would drag in some weird friend for one of the kids, and we'd be invited to laugh at how bizarre and stupid they were?

Leon is just ugly. I don't know how else to put it.

There's a rumor that

Edited April 13, 2010 by CarlD2

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I wonder what the plans are for Ronnie. Apparently, Santer and Collins love her, but all they do is have her walk abound town moping. I wonder if Kirkwood will have any interest in her or if he'll have her written out by next year.

[DRW50]

I think they will have her reunite with Jack soon and then be welcomed back by Roxy once Danny and Glenda rob Roxy blind.

[DRW50]

Interview with Nitin Ganatra, AKA Masood. He gives away a lot of spoilers.

http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/s2/eastenders/interviews/a213929/nitin-ganatra-masood-ahmed-eastenders.html

[DRW50]

I can't help feeling sorry for the boy who plays Ben. They treat him the way they treat the actress who plays Heather, who is at least an adult. They humiliate him while half-heartedly claiming we should feel sorry for him while we're laughing at him. That whole mess with the Lady Gaga outfits, ugh. And this always turns into poor Phil, what a burden. He will be boozing it up and falling over soon in a comic relief drunk scene.

There was a scene years ago after Roy died and Barry threw Pat out without a penny to her name, and Peggy hired Pat to clean the Vic. She acted like this was a service for a friend, but she was actually getting back at Pat for the affair with Frank, went out of her way to lord over Pat and reinforce that Pat was not part of the family. This story reinforced that these women are not in the same league and never will be. Their friendship and rivalry has never really worked for me; there were some good points (like when they got drunk in the ice cream van) but others which were too forced (their slap fight after Frank died). This election story is such filler -- the best part was when Roxy called them old and they snapped at her.

For all the hype about how this was about Syed's religion, it seems more like the usual cliched gay story on soaps -- selfish, nasty gay couple with self-loathing issues and the dumb girl who pays the price. The way that Amira was treated tonight was shameful, and yet we were still supposed to feel sorry for Christian. I thought he came across as kind of creepy, and I also realized he has more chemistry with Amira than he does with Syed. I'm also not sure exactly what we should take from Syed being able to get it up for Amira based on her wearing a man's shirt and playing his favorite song. Is that supposed to tell us he really is gay, or he was thinking of Christian? It actually just told me that once he stops pouting and feeling sorry for himself it's not that difficult for him to be with Amira -- I assume that wasn't the intention. The only one I care about in this story is Amira.

After some nice moments with Jane during the pregnancy story, Lucy seems to be back to her wooden status.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Christian is a nasty little creep. Ugh, he's just one of those pervy characters I hate.

Poor Ben, that actor must get picked on a lot at school for this stuff. :lol:

Fatboy is the most hideous and vile thing I've ever seen. I hope he never gets a main story and is written out very soon.

I didn't mind Lucy, all she did was support Christian in this episode, and compared to the other younger actors on this show, the actress isn't that bad.

I wonder when the reveal comes out in the Chyred story, how much longer those two will last on EastEnders. They might as well write them out soon after Amira leaves, since I doubt they'll be getting much when/if they become official. There's no chemistry AT ALL between Christian and Syed.

[DRW50]

Who came up with the idea of Christian listening to them have sex? I know that was supposed to be tragic but please. Why stay and listen? It didn't help that he was wearing nothing but overalls and you could see his naked chest. I kept thinking this was going to turn into a bisexual porn film.

I don't think they will get rid of Christian or Syed anytime soon, I think they will probably keep Christian as a supporting character with the Beales and as a sassy comic relief figure like Antony Cotton on Corrie. If he has stories they will be short arcs focusing on being unhappy. John Partridge is part of the BBC family, if his work replacing John Barrowman takes off. The only way I can see Christian leaving is if Partridge wants to return to the West End for good.

My guess is Syed will have a lot of stories about being miserable and alone, and cause problems for his family. If this were 80s Eastenders, we would get a very long story where he fell into drugs and prostitution and either died or contracted a serious illness. Since it's not, he will probably just float around as this sad-eyed burden to his family until Marc Elliot decides to leave the show. Then we will get a scene where as Syed leaves, Zainab shows up at the tube station to tell him she loves him no matter what.

I couldn't even watch any of that. His voice is agony. I LOL when I hear people say who cares if the story is any good, this is realistic. A 30 year old looking man playing a Klingon-speaking teenager is realistic?

I still prefer him to Leon, I can't even look at Leon, but that's not saying a lot. The only way Fatboy might improve is when Mercy shows up. She made him tolerable on E20.

Did you hear that they almost had Tanya murder one of her children?

http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/s2/eastenders/news/a214107/enders-reveals-greek-tragedy-influence.html

I love how they say Danielle/Ronnie was "Greek tragedy." The problem is that Greek tragedy does not air 4 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Treadwell-Collins and Santer would be better off producing films and TV-movies, or primetime.

Edited April 14, 2010 by CarlD2