Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Vee]

Loving 1995: Pre-Murders!

I had no idea that Casey died this close to the Murders - I thought he bought it early in the year. Nor did I have any idea Jacob's backstory was linked to Charles or this drug ring. @DRW50will be pleased to finally get to see Lisa Brown as the villainous federal agent who... drugs and brainwashes Charles, apparently?

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[soapfan770]

Q: What does the Alden family tree look like?
A: Kind of like this:

 

• Isabelle was married to Cabot (he's dead now...okay, he WAS dead, he's alive now).
• Cabot fathered Shana (Isabelle is not the mother).
• Isabelle bore Clay (Tim Sullivan, now also dead (really), is the father). She raised Clay as an Alden by marrying Cabot and not telling anyone (Cabot and Isabelle knew; Tim did not until he showed up in Corinth to reclaim his beloved "'Belle"; Clay only just found out as Tim was dying).
• Isabelle and Cabot produced Ann Alden (off the show now, but alive).
• Clay and Gwyneth produced Rick (now dead) out of wedlock and Gwyn gave him up for adoption (Clay did not know she was pregnant). Rick resurfaced later and caused a lot of problems, especially for Stacey. Heather is Rick and Stacey's child.
• Clay married Gwyn.
• They also produced Trisha (now presumed dead; we know she is off to Rome with Jeff Hartman) and Curtis.
• Cooper is the son of a brother of Cabot's. (Cooper's father was Cabot's brother; he calls Isabelle Aunt Isabelle). Both of Cooper's parents are dead (really, or not...we didn't see the bodies).

[DRW50]

@Vee Thanks for posting that. I never have known when Casey died either - geez, the last months of Loving were consistently dark, no break whatsoever.

Ted and Laura always had good chemistry, but the attempt to pair them romantically not long after this was a questionable idea even in the "rape me, Todd!!!" era of ABC Daytime. I'm never a fan of the "He almost raped her but then he didn't...see?" trope if it's being used in a sympathetic way. 

I can't remember seeing the penthouse set much by the time I started watching.  I mostly remember Ava and Alex in Kate's front room. 

I find when I watch that the Alex/Ava pairing takes away Ava's fire in the later years, but those last scenes really show the unbeatable chemistry Randolph and Lisa had. 

Alex's hair looks much better here than it did by the time I started watching. 

The Charles and Jacob scenes are powerful (if padded), but after all this it's a bit odd thinking about scenes like Jacob with Buck after Stacey was poisoned and learning Buck had also lost a daughter. He seems a bit detached there now knowing what I know here. 

So glad that in-between working for the feds, Casey managed to get his hair pressed.

Great to finally see Lisa Brown. This is more like a Wiseguy take on increasingly insane federal agents who do horrible things for "the greater good" rather than the Hollywood mwahaha mechanics you often get. Lisa Brown is perfect for that type of part, especially given how much gloominess and pain had overtaken her onscreen presence by this time.

[Vee]

There was some great stuff for Jacob talking about the dead family with Angie during the Murders (I will capitalize the Loving Murders to my dying day).

I think the show did a decent job fleshing out Danny in the latter half of the Murders with the well thing (which seems like pure Linda Gottlieb to me from concept to production values - supposedly she was working on the show at this time, according to Lauren-Marie Taylor) and discussing his family, but it never went far enough to sell a pairing with Ally and clearly The City failed to pick up the ball properly. I think it could've been done in time with proper care.

I'm pretty sure Special Agent Iva is from the same magic swamp agency as Irene Manning.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Vee

[Forever8]

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[amybrickwallace]

Thanks!

[dc11786]

Casey dies the first week of June. Once Agnes Nixon steps down as headwriter, the show immediately takes a darker turn. Within their first months of taking over, Laurie McCarthy and Addie Walsh have Casey turning to drugs, Clay run down in a hit and run, Curtis shooting his own mother while hallucinating about Dante, and Ava and Sandy being held captive by Gilbert while his adopted mother (played beautifully by Marian Seldes) reveals the twisted backstory leading to Gilbert's current mental state. This is all just the tail end of 1994. Fans of "Loving" on the old usenet boards always appreciated that the tone was more lighter in the early 1990s. Only when Walsh (and later Harmon Brown and Essensten) did the show have a more serious tone. I don't hate the more dramatic tone, but I do wish it had been balanced with some more lighter material. 

Danny and Ally were never going to work. I've never seen that seen that scene before, but it's pretty wretched. I almost expected Ally to rip her shirt open and beg Danny to rape her as if she were Marah Lewis. Honestly, this makes me feel less sympathetic towards Danny when Ally later claims Danny raped her.  

I still think that they should have gone the angle of bringing back Matt Ford as an undercover cop involved in the drug sting, but let the audience think that Matt was back into drugs and that he had dragged Casey into the mess. This way, you could play Matt and Ally post-Casey with Ally having very relateable reasons for blaming Matt while also having a previous pre-established connection. 

The Jacob / Charles stuff is strong. The psychologist stuff stands out because everything else is pretty good. Carolyn, Lisa Brown's character, is the one who has been poisoning Jacob. It's a really bizarre story. I'm glad they tied Charles' dead fiance into the conversation as they have very similar backstories. 

Jeremy still remains dead weight. 

I did appreciate the stuff with Isabelle and Clay with Deborah and Steffi. I thought incorporating Isabelle into Deborah's heart issues was smart. I'm not sure Deborah was the right character for this story, but I think it worked. It's one of the few stories from the final year I would like to see a bit more of. 

The Tess / Stacey / Buck stuff is pretty generic. No one comes off looking good by this point. I wish the show had just backburnered Stacey rather than have her pine over Buck. I love the early stuff with Buck and Stacey and through the loan shark stuff, but so much after is just treading water. Some of it probably was due to Lauren Marie Taylor being pregnant again, but their story becomes ridiculous at some point. When you have J.J. on the train tracks as foreplay for Buck and Stacey's reunion, the couple has run its course. 

[victoria foxton]

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Edited November 15, 2021 by victoria foxton

[amybrickwallace]

Really? Yikes.

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[dc11786]

During May sweeps, Stacey gets a call about J.J. being missing and she runs into Buck who agrees to help her find J.J. They were separated at the time. While they are driving, J.J.’s friend runs out of the woods and they go and find J.J. after he’s tied himself to the train tracks. Buck cuts him off and Stacey is so grateful they have sex in her living room only for Buck to freak out, leave Stacey to go drink at a dive bar, and has sex with Tess. I like most of Nixon’s run, but some parts are bad. 

***

Most of the family tree stuff is accurate, but Cooper’s father Tyler Alden was Cabot’s nephew, not brother. When Tyler and Cynthia Alden perish in a plane crash in March 1992, there are no living members left of that branch of the family so Cabot’s brother can assumed to be dead. 

This originated from some FAQ on Usenet which I believe was stored on a fan site for Loving/Guiding Light and some other soap. By the mid 1990s, Jack’s parentage was rarely mentioned and rarely clarified. Jack was adopted by Roger and Ann Forbes. Dane Hammond and Linda Henderson were his biological parents.

Shana’s mother was Lillian Sloane and she died several years before Shana arrived in Corinth. 

I think Isabelle (née Dwyer) was married to Cabot when Clay was conceived, but I could be wrong. 

Gwyneth’s maiden name was Marshall. 

Shana had two children: Jimmy, by Jim Vochek, who died with his father in the plane crash and Patricia (by Leo).

Trucker and Trisha’s stillborn son was Benjamin. 

Cabot’s father is Barrett Alden, who had been engaged to marry Kate’s mother, Maggie, before Maggie married Kate’s dad John. 
 

Barrett may have had a brother Richard Alden who married Abigail. Abigail haunted 35 Maple Street, supposedly.

[amybrickwallace]

Thanks. What a story.

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[Forever8]

Happened to see that Lauren Marie Taylor (ex Stacey) answering fan questions on Instagram. 

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[John]

So both Michael Weatherly & Paul Anthony Stewart left on their own?. Casey would have been a great addition to The City

Edited November 18, 2021 by John

[Forever8]

Found this on YouTube. Looks like it is a BTS of the ABC soaps from 1995. 

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[amybrickwallace]

Awww!! She seems like such a great gal.