Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Khan]

I think there was a bible written for "Manhattan Lives," because someone (it might have been Sheri Anderson or Gene Palumbo) told the press that their plans for the spinoff included a Trump-inspired family named (IIRC) Waterfield.

[Franko]

Yes, that's right! And Marlena's Bette Midlereque friend, P.T. Barnum.

[Khan]

That has "Sheri Anderson" written all over it, lol!

Too bad ABCD never thought to hire her or Thom Racina to head-write LOVING or TC.  LOVING, to me, always was a soap opera in search of a theme.  Anderson/Racina could have given that to them in the form of romance.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Khan

[DRW50]

The Loving Murders episodes have been taken down and reuploaded several times now. Someone reuploaded the two surrounding Cabot and Isabelle's murder (very tender scenes, even if I wish the dialogue wasn't so generic given the recent history of the characters).

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I had forgotten that their death happened in the same episode as Ally setting Danny up for rape. So unnecessarily crass to make this choice, or to tell the latter story at all (and if Amelia Heinle hadn't left they likely would have made Ally/Danny a couple...).

It would probably be more obvious to audiences of today, overdosed on true crime, that Gwyneth was the killer, but Christine Tudor always sells the melodrama with her whole heart, to the point where you still want to lie to yourself just as she was. 

Edited January 7, 2024 by DRW50

[Vee]

I was poking around classic OLTL since Kamar de los Reyes' untimely passing, and a hilarious LOV reference aired on OLTL in early October '95 that I never knew existed: Todd Manning muses aloud whether Viki and her alters had 'been whacking everybody in Corinth.' "I got a reporter down there who says they're piling up bodies like firewood!" Good old ABC Daytime.

Edited January 23, 2024 by Vee

[DRW50]

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[Khan]

LOVING (or ABCD's promo department) was trying too hard to be hip.

[j swift]

Reading the November 1990 recap.

I know talk shows were all the rage at the time, but wasn't Trisha Alden the least likely host, even for a local daytime show?  I could see Shana or Stacy because they would have broad appeal.  But, Trisha was always so stiff and uppity that it seems like a poor choice of profession for the character. 

It's always funny on soaps that when characters get a TV show, it is like a part-time gig. They can still investigate murders, go on trips, and have lavish romantic evenings, despite the fact that they have to go on air the next day.

Also, it seems like it was easier to write a soap before the technology of today.  Not only is everyone unavailable because they don't carry phones, but they had enduring evidence like cassette tapes and processed film photos.  Poor Gwen was caught on VHS, and they waved around that tape for a year.  It was easier to indicate a secret when they could use a prop.

[Kane]

I'd be more sympathetic if Gwyn hadn't made the tape to begin with. The dual lesson of that plot is 1) lock down your blackmail material lest it get turned around on you, and 2) don't try to blackmail someone with something that could ruin your own life if it came out.

I'd like to add Paul to the list of unlikely hosts via his radio show, where he tells short, opaque stories about himself and Ava that are apparently all the rage with tweens and air live at random times through the day and night depending on what else Paul has going on that day.

[te.]

I swear, every time I see a promo or read a description of this show it just seems to be a different show each time.

[dc11786]

Trisha's position comes from neopotism. She went into the media division of Alden Enterprises in 1988 shortly after her first husband Steve Sowolsky died. That's how she and Jeff Hartman met when Hartman was still a relatively gray character rather than and out and out psycho. She originally launches "Images" with Egypt Masters as the host, if I recall correctly. Is this the show that Trisha is hosting in 1990? 

In terms of structure, Agnes Nixon had originally pivoted the story around Merrill Vochek because she knew there was a strong desire for a desired demographic (young woman in their late teens and twenties) who were interested in careers in media. I suspect this may be why there was a shift in  Trisha's life trajectory once Steve was written off. 

Shana would have been unappealing as a host. She was a very bitter character, rightly so. Initially raised by her single mother, who later died. Often denied her birthright. Then, losing her husband and son in a plane crash. Shana hosting a consumer affairs show would have been appropriate, but I don't see her having the appeal needed to carry a lifestyle show. 

After really liking the idea of Stacey as a writer, I've wavered in recent years whether that was even an appropriate role for her. Soccer mom, car pool driving Stacey is quite effective and was a character type that was too quickly abandoned as the 1990s went on. I think Stacey's personality would have been appropriate, but I don't see Stacey enjoying that type of work. 

That film was around wayyyyy too long.

I wish all of 1991 was available. I would like to see the scenes of Paul taking (searching) for the job at the radio station. I suspect this might have been some input from Matthew Labine, who was on Ryan Munisteri's staff. He was big on music, which was why it is was going to be central to the never developed "Heart and Soul." Anyway, I understood why Paul took the job and I thought it was brilliant; he wanted to be out of the spotlight because he was ashamed of his paralysis. That was much deeper than I expected. 

I LOVE the Weird City rants with Tough Guy and Beauty. Michael's interest in the station made sense; Charlie was in a jazz band. His little pal (the actress had previously played Dorrie on GL) made less sense, but I could see how people could be drawn to his brooding demeanor at that age. But the timing never makes sense and the overall "Lord of the Flies" crowd that supposedly flocked around and required a social worker (S. Epatha Merkerson) to appear seemed a bit much.  

In the 1990s, each writer / producer had a different vision and tone with people coming and going constantly. This promo was from a period where Millee Taggart and Robert Guza were headwriting which started off strong and then descended into madness before Nixon returned and pivoted the show again into another direciton. 

[Kane]

It's a different show. Image folds as a result of the dual scandals of Egypt's pregnancy and Jeff going crazy and kidnapping Trisha. Afterwards Trisha and Stacey launch their own show called Helptalk, which mainly exists to propel the "Who Killed Rick" story, as Trisha and Stacey buy a gun as part of an episode about gun control and Stacey ends up taking that same gun to confront Rick after finding out that he kidnapped Heather.

 

Aside from the initial story where she writes a romance novel and that gets used against her as she and Jack battle for custody of JJ, I felt like the show never really did as much as it could with the premise of Stacey being a writer. She could have written a Peyton Place-esque novel that exposed all the secrets of people in town, becoming a best selling novelist but alienating her friends and family in the process, for example. Or they could have actually followed through with having her teach a creative writing class at AU and gotten her involved in that scene, which is discussed at the end of 92/beginning of 93 but just ends up getting dropped.

[dc11786]

The "Peyton Place" angle was also dropped. Stacey was hired by Tempo magazine in February, 1992, to write an article on the Alden family during the brief Tides mystery. I don't think the story would have been effective. I don't think Stacey would have really done that route. 

The college professor angle was clearly a plot dictated move to get Stacey into Jeremy's orbit for the breif Jeremy/Stacey pairing that wouldn't have worked. I think they could have done a story where Casey took a writing course and became linked to Stacey, which might have been too close a replay of Ceara/Matt/Ally. Especially once Trisha "died," Casey was anchorless and could have been involved with the Stacey / Buck / Heather / J.J. family unit stuff. 

I wish they had just revisited the Donovan family in full, which I think would have given Stacey natural drama. Rose Donovan suffering from dementia. Doug coming out late in life. Mike Donovan supporting Curtis Alden during his PTSD drama only for Mike to be a thorn in Curtis/Stacey's side. And the inevitable Patrick Donovan marrying Kate Rescott. 

[Paul Raven]

It happened over and over on just about every show.

Rather than look back to the original concept and rebuild from there, each new team introduce new characters and families which then are mostly dropped by the next team and the shows become a disjointed patchwork representing various regimes.

[Sapounopera]

I love all of these ideas. I think that Stacey could only work as someone's wife, the normal couple people go to in order to discuss their problems. I could see her and Jack owning a coffee shop or a bistro and living a "quiet" life like Nick and Sharon on Y&R in the 90s-00s. 

Ain't that the truth.