I think 'found family' is valid enough for soaps - Melrose Place, and shows like Degrassi, The O.C., 90210, etc. used it to great effect for decades. It's the execution and stories that bear it out. The City's found family was not the issue for me (though I think they could and should have woven in more direct family ties, like Ava and Alex's kids), but it did a lot very fast for daytime, in terms of changes and taking risks, and it didn't have good enough story to back it up.

I think the City was too focused on the new film style, new setting, and getting Morgan Fairchild instead of focusing on strong plots and good characters.

I did think over that first year, the show did smooth out some of the early rough patches.. and started to connect the characters in a found family sort of way.   Had Morgan Fairchild opted to renew her contract.. her character would have continued being intergrated into the show.  Heck still hire Jane Elliot as Tracy Quartermain because I did like the few Sydney vs Tracy scenes that we got (unless I'm imaging the two interacting with one another).

And Jocelyn was a poor subsitute for Ava.

I think the problem with the City is that the Loving murders were so compelling, and then the City started, and there was hardly anything there to keep people watching. The long-established characters had been murdered, and no one was turning in for Morgan Fairchild (and I like her so it's not a dig at her). They needed to grab attention right away and I think they should have just had Gwen revealed as the murderer on Loving and then have her continue on The City until she was caught so that Loving fans would want to watch The City. Once Fairchild didn't go over well with Loving audiences, they did the tired and sexist "let's rape a strong female character" trope. The City had a lot to offer, but if you don't pull viewers in from the beginning, you're toast.

Happy Thanksgiving to all my fellow Loving fans. Here's a treat:

 

San Bernardino Sun 13 October 1993

 New 'Loving' feeling

Haidee Granger executive producer of ABC's daytime soap "Loving" since May '92 has been replaced. Beginning Nov. 1, Jo Ann Emmerich, one-time senior vice president of ABC Daytime,, takes over the reins. Pat Fili-Krushel, president of ABC Daytime says, "By selecting Jozie, who has a brilliant flair for the daytime medium, we feel secure in our longterm commitment to "Loving," and I know she will take it to new heights in the ratings." 

There was discussion in the NBC daytime thread about Generations and why it failed.

This led to a comparison to Loving, where it was suggested that the show didn't have a clear enough premise and that the title was way too generic.

Can anyone come up with some alternative  titles, and what they could/should have done at launch to give the show a bit more punch?

37 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

There was discussion in the NBC daytime thread about Generations and why it failed.

This led to a comparison to Loving, where it was suggested that the show didn't have a clear enough premise and that the title was way too generic.

Can anyone come up with some alternative  titles, and what they could/should have done at launch to give the show a bit more punch?

Maybe something like The Aldens of Corinth, or Family on the Hill...or even just Corinth. 

For sure, I think the events that happened in the pilot - for instance, wasn't there some story about someone terrorizing and/or killing prostitutes? - should have carried over into the actual series.  Otherwise, if it's all contained within 90 or so minutes, what's the incentive for the audience to "tune in tomorrow," so to speak?  And if it meant you couldn't hire Lloyd Bridges or Geraldine Page, then...oh well!  *shrug*

22 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Maybe something like The Aldens of Corinth, or Family on the Hill...or even just Corinth. 

I'm sure it was the title of a Loving-related SOD article at some point, but The First Corinthians has a snooty Phoebe English Tyler vibe which would nicely describe an Alden-focused series. The Last Corinthians could be the title of the post-serial murders Gothic reboot we've mused on in this thread.

St Louis Post Dispatch 12th Nov 1992

TUNE IN By Nancy M. Reichardt  LOVING" threw a champagne reception recently during the taping of the wedding festivities for star-crossed lovers Trisha and Trucker (Noelle Beck and Robert Tyler). Nearly the entire cast was on hand for the taping, and they were all dressed to kill in glamorous outfits. But all eyes were focused on the "bride," who was clad in a specially designed Renaissance-type wedding dress, topped off with a headpiece that looked like an authentic antique from the Middle Ages.

In actuality, the headpiece, a small crown, was purchased by Beck when she was a youngster.

"When I was about 12, 1 bought an old wedding dress for 25 cents at a flea market, and I bought this headpiece along with it," says the actress. "I've had the headpiece in my dressing room for years. When our producer, Haidee Granger, saw it, she thought it would be ideal for me to wear as part of my wedding ensemble."

At the reception, Granger announced that Millee Taggart would be replacing Addie Walsh as head writer, effective mid-November. The news that Taggart, who has written for the soap before, would once again be at the helm was met with applause. And Keith Grumet, who nearly disappeared from the show as nerdy Arthur, will soon be enjoying a beefed-up story line..

Please tell me Addie Walsh was told beforehand, or else that would have been a very soapy moment, lol.

At one point, Walsh quit prior to her ousting. Shortly after he came on (summer 1992), Paul Anthony Stewart stated the show had no headwriter and that Granger was acting as defacto headwriter. 1992 is a mess so I wouldn't be surprised.  Addie Walsh and Haidee Granger clashed; it sounds like Granger clashed with a lot of people.

Anyway, I suspect Walsh was upset because Granger changed her story plans for Cooper Alden, which involved him being sexually assaulted by his nanny. In Granger's sanitized version, it was described as a seduction by a twelve or thirteen year old Cooper of Selina Walker, the nanny. When Walsh returns in 1994, she has a rather big confrontation between Stephanie and Cooper over Stephanie's precarious health (her eating disorder was ramping up again). As Cooper discussed his own feelings, Steffi directly asks Cooper if he was molested, and Cooper confirms it.

It would seem most likely that Walsh's bible was used for the 2nd half of 1992 whether or not she was present or not. 

2 hours ago, dc11786 said:

it sounds like Granger clashed with a lot of people.

For some reason, I do remember reading in one of the soap mags at the time that Haidee Granger rubbed many people at the show the wrong way.

On 12/14/2023 at 6:39 PM, dc11786 said:

At one point, Walsh quit prior to her ousting. Shortly after he came on (summer 1992), Paul Anthony Stewart stated the show had no headwriter and that Granger was acting as defacto headwriter. 1992 is a mess so I wouldn't be surprised.  Addie Walsh and Haidee Granger clashed; it sounds like Granger clashed with a lot of people.

Anyway, I suspect Walsh was upset because Granger changed her story plans for Cooper Alden, which involved him being sexually assaulted by his nanny. In Granger's sanitized version, it was described as a seduction by a twelve or thirteen year old Cooper of Selina Walker, the nanny. When Walsh returns in 1994, she has a rather big confrontation between Stephanie and Cooper over Stephanie's precarious health (her eating disorder was ramping up again). As Cooper discussed his own feelings, Steffi directly asks Cooper if he was molested, and Cooper confirms it.

It would seem most likely that Walsh's bible was used for the 2nd half of 1992 whether or not she was present or not. 

I'm glad that Walsh was able to fix what Granger did with the Cooper story as much as she could in 1994.

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I'm glad that Walsh was able to fix what Granger did with the Cooper story as much as she could in 1994.

I agree. I like Walsh's 1994-1995 run better then her 1992-1993. A lot of 1992-1993 even before Haidee Granger arrives on the scene is very dry and lifeless. I suspect the bigger issue was that the big story, the introduction of the college set, didn't happen until several months into Walsh's run on the show and the other big story, Clay isn't an Alden, wasn't well received. I think the Clay story was actually a recycled plot from "Riveria," the French produced soap filmed in English that Walsh wrote the year before she came to "Loving" the first time. There was a love story between Bradley Cole's American character and the daughter of the wealthy perfume producing family. It turned out they were half-siblings until it was revealed quite towards the end that the daughter was the product of an affair as well. Maybe Walsh wanted to try Shana and Clay? I don't think that would have worked with Larkin Malloy and it would have been a waste of Dennis Parlato's time. 

I think it was pretty hard to mess up the younger set once Amelia Heinle arrives as Steffi. Only the work of James Harmon Brown & Barbara Essensten seems to lose some of what made Cooper/Steffi/Casey/Ally special even when the actors were able to keep their characters mostly cohesive despite the roulette wheel of producers and writers that the show went through in the final three years. I will say Walsh and Laurie McCarthy write some of the most dramatically compelling scenes that the younger set has during their entire run with Casey's mental health issues leading to self medicating with cocaine, Steffi's parallel journey of self-destruction after Clay has convinced her that Cooper and Deborah bedded down together, and Ally and Cooper having to make hard decisions when Tyler accidentally comes into contact with the drugs that Casey had in his camera bag.