Hmmm...so the only real positive reaction AMC has gotten in months is the return of Angie and Jesse--two veterans who can act, have history, and in Angie's case, a woman with a real career we see working. So what does AMC do as its next big ratings stunt? Have the silly Fusion women practice being pole-dancers! Sure, why not? Argh! How do Frons and his minions think this will pay off ratings wise??

I really wish they'd give up on the stupid Fusion crap, and have Greenlee, Kendall and Amanda do something else. Annie and Babe can just leave.

Actually I don't give a [!@#$%^&*] about you. I can not think of one time when I have watched a soap opera, or for that matter any television show, movie or anything else and thought hmmm, I wonder what Shawn Perez at SON thinks. Does that answer your question?

Ryan your boys pushing it. this is the time i gotta say something when I'm personally being attacked. who said anything about you giving a [!@#$%^&*] about me? do you think i care about your life. dude you could die tomorrow and i wont give a [!@#$%^&*]. if you dont watch soaps. why are hell are you here kid? get off your high horse and chill. i was only stating my opinion. if you wanna attack me. go ahead. it ain't gonna do you any good because your a !@#$%^&*] behind the keyboard.

Edited February 15, 200817 yr by shawn Perez

<blows whistle> Can we please have a nice discussion about the ratings without getting into it every week? Let us try to respect each other's opinions, please.

SON: Bringing The Drama Closer

it never gets old saying that. it doesnt.

what i meant was. DOOL has no follow through villains. they come off as weak. All talk no action. victor was a good villain back in the day when he said he was gonna do something he did it. that's problem with DOOL nowadays. they back tracked and now they have weak villains like victor who once was a good villain. and stefano who was my fav..the writers completely screwed them up. IMO the the resent villain DOOL had that was a follow through type of badass was Andre. and he's dead. didn't last more than a few months.

One of the reasons why Victor is such a great villain is because he dont need to put a gun on someone. Like when he helped Chelsea, he made one phone call and that was it. Victor is not a weak villain. Andre didn't last more then a few months? He has been on and of the show for over 20 years.

Me too. I was saying on another board that it's like there's someone else writing for Jesse and Angie. When Angie passed out at the graveyard after seeing Jesse everyone told her that she was imagining things but when she was alone she asked herself "Why would I see Jesse looking 20 years older? Wouldn't he look the way he did when he died?" A smart question from a smart woman. And the type of thing that we the viewers would've torn her to pieces for if the show hadn't addressed it.

Everyone keeps saying stunt casting can't save AMC only better writing can do that. Well hold on to your hats folks the writing has gotten better even if it only for 10 out of 42 minutes.

As for OLTL, the only thing RC really had going for him was the fact that Dena sucked. The average squirrel on crack could pen better stories than she did. And now the show isn't living up to all the post Dena-hype Frons paid for.

I agree with all of that.

Angie and Jessie is the best thing going for ABCD. The acting and the story are excellent. It is my concept of must see tv. The rest of the show needs a lot of work but even there I find some pieces better than the other and even enjoyable.

On Malone and John, ME was a gift handed to him by Frons and told to use.

You can't hand me two vets and their son (all of whom are acting their hearts out, but that's not the point) and say "look, it's a show." That doesn't work. Meanwhile, Ryan, Kendall, Greenlee and Zach have all become unwatchable, and the amnesia storyline is basically a device to get Ryan back to tomcatting guilt-free while he's still married with children. Kendall and Greenlee react to this with girlish giggling as they delight in their "wonderful" past demeaning and debasing themselves for Ryan for many years complete with flashbacks; next, they're apparently going to be practicing pole-dancing in the office. Every awkward, stilted scene between those two and the Fusion "women" keeps trying to show us how wonderful and empowered they all are, but they mostly come off like Barbie dolls spouting slogans and insisting "we're back! It's great! Look, everyone, it's 2004!" And I still don't understand why almost every woman in town works there for no reason, including the recent ex-prostitute.

Also, Tad is a murderer walking free and unrepentant (and I haven't even mentioned the departing Jonathan or his marriage to an autistic teenager). JR and Adam do the same boring storyline every year, except now JR is even more of a bloated drunk trying to resemble a lion and Adam is wearing more Mr. Rogers sweaters while everyone accuses him of genocide in Darfur. Krystal and Babe are still on the show. Erica looks tired as hell even with Mario Van Peebles around. Kate still has not been found after something like five or six years and the needless death of her mother. Everyone else is either wallpaper or wasted.

It doesn't help that Angie and Jesse's storyline has been done dozens of times in the last ten years, particularly on AMC. Oh look, a vet is alive again, oh look someone's chasing them, they can't reveal they're alive, oh gee what will happen, could it be organized crime, I wonder how this will end. I saw this with Julia last time and it wasn't good then either.

If OLTL were to give me back Kevin and RJ with Dena Higley still writing I'd say the same thing. Nice, but there's no "there" there. DG (Kevin) and HT (Kelly) acted their way through tremendous [!@#$%^&*] in their last year on OLTL but it didn't change the fact that the show was still bad and the stories were still pointless. OLTL may not have all the people I'd want to see back but at least they're telling intelligent, layered and interwoven stories while not leaving every character as the same burned-out husk they found them as - which is what B&E did with Tad and many others, before ruining Kendall, Greenlee and Zach even more by themselves with that brilliant "crash" storyline which the characters are no longer allowed to address honestly because The Real Greenlee!! is back and nothing the recast did, like abduct and possibly cripple Zach/Kendall/Ryan's son, matters anymore.

Edited February 15, 200817 yr by Vee

Me too. I was saying on another board that it's like there's someone else writing for Jesse and Angie. When Angie passed out at the graveyard after seeing Jesse everyone told her that she was imagining things but when she was alone she asked herself "Why would I see Jesse looking 20 years older? Wouldn't he look the way he did when he died?" A smart question from a smart woman. And the type of thing that we the viewers would've torn her to pieces for if the show hadn't addressed it.

Everyone keeps saying stunt casting can't save AMC only better writing can do that. Well hold on to your hats folks the writing has gotten better even if it only for 10 out of 42 minutes.

As for OLTL, the only thing RC really had going for him was the fact that Dena sucked. The average squirrel on crack could pen better stories than she did. And now the show isn't living up to all the post Dena-hype Frons paid for.

Man, I so agree with this! There's nothing worse than a completely boring, unimaginative show. OLTL fits that bill on every level. I've been saying for months Higley was so bad that the only way to go was up and I maintain RC has been only marginally better. He improved the show in some areas but the show is still scraping the barrel of sucktitude. Whoever thought the gimmicks surrounding Alison's secret for the Buchanans should be featured for sweeps...sweeps! deserve to be fired. People want a new head writer for AMC and I want the same for OLTL.

As for AMC... How long before Frons blames Jessie and Angie for the ratings and promptly backburner them. We all know he's not going to blame his precious (real!) Greenlee or anyone else. I can't even say it's one character although the excessive promotion of RB probably turned a lot of people off, but it's happening across the ABC landscape so it's clearly management. I haven't watched AMC consistently but J/A currently has me hooked. The acting has been Emmy caliber from day one and yet Frons won't hesitate to make them casualties to perpetuate his vision.

IMO Darnell and Debbi are once in a lifetime talents. Even if their story has been told a million times before, no one can act the hell out of it like they can. They are just that good.

IMO Darnell and Debbi are once in a lifetime talents. Even if their story has been told a million times before, no one can act the hell out of it like they can. They are just that good.

Damn straight

They are of course wonderful and heartbreaking. The problem is the show is [!@#$%^&*].

You can't hand me two vets and their son (all of whom are acting their hearts out, but that's not the point) and say "look, it's a show." That doesn't work. Meanwhile, Ryan, Kendall, Greenlee and Zach have all become unwatchable, and the amnesia storyline is basically a device to get Ryan back to tomcatting guilt-free while he's still married with children. Kendall and Greenlee react to this with girlish giggling as they delight in their "wonderful" past demeaning and debasing themselves for Ryan for many years complete with flashbacks; next, they're apparently going to be practicing pole-dancing in the office. Every awkward, stilted scene between those two and the Fusion "women" keeps trying to show us how wonderful and empowered they all are, but they mostly come off like Barbie dolls spouting slogans and insisting "we're back! It's great! Look, everyone, it's 2004!" And I still don't understand why almost every woman in town works there for no reason, including the recent ex-prostitute.

Also, Tad is a murderer walking free and unrepentant (and I haven't even mentioned the departing Jonathan or his marriage to an autistic teenager). JR and Adam do the same boring storyline every year, except now JR is even more of a bloated drunk trying to resemble a lion and Adam is wearing more Mr. Rogers sweaters while everyone accuses him of genocide in Darfur. Krystal and Babe are still on the show. Erica looks tired as hell even with Mario Van Peebles around. Kate still has not been found after something like five or six years and the needless death of her mother. Everyone else is either wallpaper or wasted.

It doesn't help that Angie and Jesse's storyline has been done dozens of times in the last ten years, particularly on AMC. Oh look, a vet is alive again, oh look someone's chasing them, they can't reveal they're alive, oh gee what will happen, could it be organized crime, I wonder how this will end. I saw this with Julia last time and it wasn't good then either.

If OLTL were to give me back Kevin and RJ with Dena Higley still writing I'd say the same thing. Nice, but there's no "there" there. DG (Kevin) and HT (Kelly) acted their way through tremendous [!@#$%^&*] in their last year on OLTL but it didn't change the fact that the show was still bad and the stories were still pointless. OLTL may not have all the people I'd want to see back but at least they're telling intelligent, layered and interwoven stories while not leaving every character as the same burned-out husk they found them as - which is what B&E did with Tad and many others, before ruining Kendall, Greenlee and Zach even more by themselves with that brilliant "crash" storyline which the characters are no longer allowed to address honestly because The Real Greenlee!! is back and nothing the recast did, like abduct and possibly cripple Zach/Kendall/Ryan's son, matters anymore.

I want to marry this post! I highlighted my favorite parts, but really I couldn't agree more with everything you said.

I wouldn't be shocked if Frons blamed D&D, I doubt he was all gung ho about their returns anyways, notice they barely got promotion while "Real Greenlee" was promoted so much it made people who even liked her sick of her before she even aired.

The pole dancing stuff is stupid. Rebecca Budig pole dances in real life, suddenly it's Greenlee's suggestion on AMC? Nuff said..........

As soon as their return story is resolved Angie and Jesse will be backburnered. They will probably just be supporting players to Frankie and Cassandra. And at the next round of severe budget cuts they'll get the Cady McClain treatment: "Sorry guys, Barbara and Jim feel that there's nothing more to write for you. It's all been done. By the way, what are your favorite foods so we can use those to kill you off?"

Edited February 16, 200817 yr by LeClerc

Where are the rest of the rating