A comparison of Y&R post-Bell...

[David V]

A lot of people have expressed disillusionment with Y&R since LML took over, and from the sound of it rightly so, in the way Latham has transformed a character-driven masterpiece into a plot-driven mess.

Here's a take on it. Even though Bill Bell stepped back from HW duties in 1998, as long as he was still around there was no doubt his stamp was very much on the show, and that he still very much had influence behind the scenes during subsequent writing regimes. The change really only took place after Bell's death, and the gradual phasing out of those who worked under him. And whilst Alden and Smith were certainly not free of fault and criticism, they maintained the things that Y&R was best-known for- realistic, character-driven, socially relevant and relatable storylines, all very much things that kept Y&R on top. The show never sought to stoop to the me too-ism that blighted so many soaps in the previous decade or two.

LML has, however, single-handedly altered the complexion of Y&R beyond recognition, making it much like what else is around these days.

We can draw comparisons between this, and the gradual decline of ATWT following Marland's death, which we've discussed and chronicled elsewhere. In the two years following his death, the show was still very much under the control of people who had associated with Marland in one way or another, or at least knew and understood the history of the show well. Therefore, they did not deviate radically from his vision as such (though some may feel free to correct me on this). And once these people were phased out and a new regime took control, the results were truly awful.

The similarities have become ever more striking.

[Chris B]

I've made myself crazy complaining about Latham (who I once loved). My problem isn't change, I thought the blended team was working well in the first part of 2006, but once she became Executive Producer and got total control, Y&R was officially dead. The woman is clearly a control freak who wants desperately to create her own soap (which is impossible these days). Because of that she has completely overhauled Y&R into what SHE wants it to be.

Due to their history at Port Charles, I'm sure Barbara Bloom brought her on and gave her pick of whatever soap she wanted. No way you can convince me Smith/Alden needed to be fired a couple months after winning a much deserved BEST WRITING Emmy! LML was smart to pick Y&R because it was on top. Smart for her, bad for us. Why couldn't she have "saved" GL?

[foxhunter]

i don't ever remember the young and the restless being socially relevant. i honestly don't see how you can argue this when there are virtually no poor people on the show, and when they have people are poor nowadays they're almost always painted as evil characters while the rich are painted as important pillars of the community to look up to. in addition, it was only in the ninties when the show introduced a core african-american. until then, the show's resident african-american were stereo-tyoes; mamie, the maid, dru, the pic-pocketer, and nathan, the professional pi who served as a prop. in addition, the show dropped a lesbian storyline in the seventies, nixed ieil and victoria as a couple when southern affiliates threatened to drop the show. they're are no gay people (see "as the world turns" or "all my children") on the canvas either. and don't even get me started with the fisher clan" supposedly "reformed" rapists, murderers and attempted murderers getting on with their lives after one or two "redeeming" moments. while i miss the bell years i don't think that looking at the show as a god-send is helpful. it was very good at being entertaining and that's pretty much it.

[Chris B]

Y&R actually had tons of diversity and socially relevant stories when Bill Bell was writing the show. Let's not forget the original core family, the Fosters, were dirt poor. The Winters are very much middle class as were the Williams family. As far as social issues, you had Kay's alcoholism, Jennifer Brooks' breast cancer, various rapes including Chris Brooks and Christine Blair, homeless Drucilla who can't read, Traci and Nina's weight problems, etc. BTW, they did have a gay storyline for Katherine.

I completely disagree with you that the show was simply entertaining. I thought Bill Bell's Y&R had romance, intrigue, family drama, great mystery, camp, glamour and realism where it needed it. I love the diversity in his city and how well represented each side were. I'm currently rewatching older episodes so this is all fresh in my mind.

Bill Bell did amazing things for the soap opera genre with Y&R. It's a shame someone with talent didn't get to be his successor.

[stenbeck212]

ATWT truly fell from glory in 1996 with the expansion of the Kasnoffs(ironically, a part of Marland's plan all along), but P&G was quicker to make regime changes when quality faltered then. In the late 90s, the show had more HWs and EPs than people passing through Grand Central Station on a Monday. Fortunately dedication to Marland's characters has continued to this day, even with Passanante. Still, ATWT and Y&R are victims of a mentality that puts grandiose melodrama ahead of believable storytelling. I honestly think people come up with material by saying "what if Carly were dying...and then NOT dying." Compared to what I recently read about how even Marland wasn't always sure of where a story was going because figuring out character motivation was so important, the difference is huge. It seems that everyone has a different opinion though. See what people at Jump the Shark said about when ATWT did just that:

http://www.jumptheshark.com/topic/World-Tu...al-Comments/119

[foxhunter]

BTW, they did have a gay storyline for Katherine.

that storyline was dropped, swept under the rug and quickly forgotten. all i am saying is that it's not like the show was the daytime version of "all in the family" or anything. it didn't make us look at our own prejudeces (as the now god-awful "all my children did" with bianca, and then later, ahem, zarf). it was good, but it's ground-breaking years have been gone for a long, lone time.

[Sylph]

What have you been reading? Do tell!

[stenbeck212]

^I know I came across that tidbit not too long ago, but I can't recall where!

Actually it's from Patrick Mulcahey's interview at Soaptown USA, regarding his work with Marland at GL.

[DeeeDee]

[Sylph]

Thank you, stenbeck212!

[DaytimeFan]

Well everyone who has already posted is dead on.

Bell Bell's regime, especially Kay Alden, did a lovely job with keeping the show on cours because they'd been trained by Bell and followed his lead (those who didn't were fired). And while Jack Smith certainly had his faults (ie the Mother & Daughter Fiasco that is Katherine and Jill) I will say what it seems everyone else at CBS forgets: in his last year at Y&R Jack Smith's son was dying of terminal cancer. Who in the hell could do their best work when their child is dying? Really, who has the guts to say otherwise? As far as I'm concerned Smith may have been deeply flawed but he gets a pass for his grief alone.

LML, well, she's basically a complete b---h who has ruined my favorite soap and for that I wish nothing but horrible ratings and cast defections on her. LML took a show that was distinctly character driven and turned it into a plot driven mess. It's an absolute train wreck right now which goes to show truly sensitive soap operas are: one bad writer can take the best show and make it the worst in less than a year. That being said, SONY is also to blame for this mess as they are the ones who sign her cheques. SONY took Kay Alden and the old regime for granted and I hope it comes back to bite them in the a-- soon.

[RuAsRuAnAu]

Why do you think LML was approached in the first place to join Y&R? Do ratings have anything to do with it, specifically the ratings of 2004 & 2005? LML was not to blame for stuff that occurred before she joined in November 2005. Those issues belong to Smith, Alden, and Jones.

[Chris B]

LML was contacted and began prepping for her Y&R gig in 2004, which was when Bill Bell died IIRC. Obviously, they couldn't dismantle his team when he was around. I'm sure they'd love to get their hands on B&B as well. My guess is that Barbara Bloom brought LML on since they worked together at Port Charles. Most of the low grade hacks she's brought on are from that show as well.

The show did drop in the ratings under Jack Smith, not Alden, but I still didn't think it was bad enough to merit firing everyone (including non-writers). They should've done like B&B which has integrated the Y&R writers with the existing B&B staff. LML could've been a co-headwriter with Kay Alden, keeping most of the same writing staff.

[DeeeDee]

LML was contacted and began prepping for her Y&R gig in 2004, which was when Bill Bell died IIRC.

Bill Bell died in 05.