Members AMCGio83 Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 Methinks if there had been no accident there would have been no real issue. 20 miles of road. No traffic. Thats maybe 20 minutes and Greenlee DID reconsider her actions so no, I think that within the context of the story Spike would have been fine and no one would have called it a kidnapping. Similarly, Greenlee lost a baby, Zack thawed out her eggs and Kendall sort of betrayed her by carrying her own child with ryan. So if Erica had motive (which I don't believe she did. Especially not the kidnapping Maria at gunpoint part) then so does Greenlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angela Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 I'm not excusing either's kidnapping attempts, I just think there's a difference between losing a baby 5 minutes ago and walking away from a baby your friend was pleading to give you THEN nearly two years later deciding you deserve the baby, after your obsession dumps you, while that friend (one of the only people that's being nice to you) is maybe losing her other baby. But that's besides the point - even if Kendall was being a flat out bitch to her - I just don't believe Erica having kidnapped a child means she should sympathize with all kidnappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 That's something I'll never get over. How Zach took Greenlee's chance to have a child away from her. He killed her eggs with that blackout stunt. He killed numerous couples chances to have children. He killed embroys and possiable babies and yet the show skates around it and even props it as a romantic gesture of Zendell. That's not romantic that is possiablly one of the most morally reprehensiable things that has ever been done on this show. Greenlee should be out for blood. Zach's blood and how Zach can ride on his high horse after killing Greenlee's chance for pregnancy (and numerous other couples) is disgusting, vile and sickening. I personally can't believe they went that far with Zach's character and to call him a hero after that stunt he pulled is stomach turning. Greenlee was wronged and yes what she did was wrong, but Greenlee was a victim here as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMCGio83 Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 I'd also like to add that for all of erica learning her lesson about keeping children and families apart she did also keep Greenlee and Jack from knowing the truth about eachother back in 03. Now that jack could have brought up when erica was laying into Sabinelee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 But shouldn't she be able to empathize with the feelings of loss and sorrow of losing a child? Shouldn't she be able to understand taking a child to replace the one you lost to ease the pain? That's something I would think she would be able to empathsize with since those along with her reason of vengence were her reasons for taking Maddie? She should atleast be able to acknowledge that she was in that same lost place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angela Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 This argument is not about Zach, this is about how Erica should react to kidnappers. Greenlee could have and should have sued Zach after he confessed, I wouldn't have blamed her all that much. And Greenlee can have babies, she just can't carry babies according to Madden - she'll have viable eggs until she hits the change of life. Greenlee was a victim that year, but she also was one of the people being a big frickin idiot to "save" the one she loves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AMCGio83 Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 Yup. I agree. ultimately that's what this discussion boil down to. How should Erica react. Maybe it will come later but I think if she could take just one moment (just one) to empathize or if she was just reminded (for one moment) why she could emphatize it would some more layers to this story. Because this has not happened, I don't know, I couldn't help feel like something was missing today despite the heavy drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angela Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 Gio, all I said was she never plotted a kidnapping again (although you might be refering to Kylie). It'd be one thing if I ever believed Greenlee was all that concerned about having a child versus having her obsessions child. Skin, you're basically saying Erica should chill out with people who kidnap her children's children because she kidnapped a child, I don't agree with that at all. Even if Erica had kidnapped again or plotted to - I don't think she should have to sympathize or empathize with people who kidnap her children's children and/or almost kill them and/or let them think their children are dead at all. And another difference, Erica caught Maria boinking Dimitri and she always hated her (which doesn't make her kidnapping right, but IJS) - Babe/Bianca, Kendall/Greenlee - best friends (Kendall especially has gone above and beyond for Greenlee when she really never should have talked to her after the courtroom and Ryan things, yes the sperm thing was stupid/wrong but generously stupid.wrong - she should have let the sperm die). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 No. I believe that Erica has a right to her anger. Her grandchildren are fighting for her lives. However I just want her to atleast realize that she felt the same things Greenlee felt and reacted badly out of greif, loss and pain. My problem isn't so much that she is angry it's the fact that she has done the same thing and then get's all high and mighty about when they are in the same place she was. Erica is the very definition of a hypocrite. She has a right to her anger but she should also realize that she has done the same thing and been in the same place and acknowledge as much. It's not as if Greenlee wanted Spike to be hurt or as if she planned to hurt baby Slater. It was an honest to god accident. Could it have been avioded. Hell yes. But then again so could baby Maddie's car accident and early birth when Erica kidnapped Maria and hauled her up to that cabin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angela Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 Well, I respectfully disagree. This is Erica, she holds a grudge and she's hypocritical - that said I don't think she's being hypocritical in reference to Babe or Greenlee and even if she is - I don't blame her and I love her tiny behind for it. I don't want her to sympathize or emphatize with people kidnapping her grandchildren and almost getting them killed (or letting her children believe the kid is dead) because she should because she kidnapped a child to. I love that you screw with this woman's children or grandchildren and Erica wants you dead and holds a grudge (well unless you're a Lavery, heh, but there's the normal standard and the Lavery standard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members R Sinclair Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 So her daughter and two grandsons are all in jeopardy and Erica should stop, think, and be concerned about Greenlee's feelings? Greenlee acted out of a sense of entitlement -- not loss and sorrow. "You were supposed to be mine from the moment you were created," were the exact words she used before she drove off in the opposite direction. She felt she's owed something from everyone. As if she wasn't given something that belonged to her. She felt she was owed the child she CHOSE to walk away from two years ago. That's not the same as Erica finding Maddie, going to Wildwind to bring her back and then overhearding Maria and Dimitri say maybe it was best that the child had been lost (of course Erica heard it out of context). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 Well that's just my opinon. One of the things I can't stand about Erica is that she'll do some of the worst things possiable and then if you do something to hurt her then your worse then dog biscuits as far as she's concerned and it will be the same thing she did to the person she screwed over in the first place. R, Did you not see that Greenlee was reacting to what she lost? The fact that her child. the child she needed with Ryan was supposed to be hers? That Spike was supposed to be her's and Ryan's and that it killed her when she found out that it wasn't her child with Ryan but Kendell's? Spike was supposed to be her's. She mentally broke and in a moment of nostalgia and loss wanted to take what she desired so badly for over two years. If that didn't show Greenlee's loss then I don't know what will. And that's not even scraping the surface of the fact that she miscarried her child and will never be able to carry a child ever again. That she'll never be able to feel her baby grow, ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kylie Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 She won't be reminded. She wasn't during the baby swap fall out. David came thisclose to calling her on it, but the show had him pull back at the last moment, and IMO no one will ever call her on it. But they dn't have too. She paid. She did her time. She's made peace wtih the whole thing. Maddie is where she should be. It's over for her. And she's moved on. She doesn't have to feel anything for other kidnappers just because she was did it too at one time. She doesn't have to do anything more to a kidnapper then ream them out. She got reamed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members R Sinclair Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 ROTFLMAO! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members R Sinclair Posted July 28, 2007 Members Share Posted July 28, 2007 But you just wrote it yourself. Supposed to be. Supposed to be and is are two different things. She didn't lose anything. She just didn't get what she felt she was owed or what she wanted HOW she wanted it. And for the record, she never lost Spike. SHE WALKED OUT ON SPIKE. So I just can't get behind this Greenlee's acting out of pain, sorrow and loss theory, because you don't LOSE something you CHOOSE to give up. And let's also remember how perky, bubbly and happy SabineLee was when she came back to town. Licking envelopes like crazy, mailing cutesy little reminders to Ryan and Kendall. Getting a manicure/pedicure at the spa, bragging about coming up with the names of Fusion's nail color. All of this pain and loss and sorrow only happened AFTER she realized everyone's lives continued on without her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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