Primetime Soaps

[Chris B]

I thought Lemay said he was personal friends with the Shapiros and we've now learned they worked for Love of Life. I never took it as a swipe that they "stole" the Carrington name, but maybe it was a homage to a friend. But you can't tell me it's a coincidence that Another World was a hugely popular soap and when bringing the genre to primetime David Jacobs, the Shapiros, etc. didn't look to daytime for inspiration. What are the chances you'd have a huge Ewing family on AW, then Dallas just happened to be centered around a Ewing family?

[Khan]

Mack could be tempted, of course, and he was. Not just with Anne, but with Jill Bennett and, later on, Paula Vertosick. However, in this case, I tend to side with Lee. KNOTS needed at least one, relatively stable couple. Otherwise, if all the major couples were falling in and out of each other's beds, the show as a whole would've looked soulless and vapid.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Khan

[Sylph]

He did and it wasn't.

[Chris B]

Unless this was after Laura died, she and Greg were happy. And it's not like Mack and Karen would've gotten divorced. Sid and Karen were the stable couple in the beginning, yet she tempted affairs and had such a strong sexuality. I think it's possible to do and maintain the integrity of the show and the characters. I just hated that they dropped it cold turkey.

[DRW50]

Unfortunately by this time Laura was barely seen. I guess that was due to Constance going on maternity leave but even aside from that she was barely a presence in her last few seasons on the show. They gave up on her character.

I didn't mind Karen and Mack as a stable couple. What I minded more was when Mack became a judgmental ass sometime around the time Laura died. I never forgave Mack for the way he behaved at Laura's funeral -- even if he and Greg were no longer close, Mack's behavior was childish and selfish and disgusting. After that he was so angry and cold so much of the time and was wasted as Paige's meddling, obsessive father. The only time he went back to being a more balanced character was when he adopted Jason.

I always had a lot of issues with the writers giving little Meg to Karen and Mack. I felt like that was somewhat of a betrayal to Greg and Laura and how Laura had loved Greg. Laura helped Greg to become a better person and yet he regressed completely after she died. While that may have been realistic, it wasn't fun to watch, and I would have rather seen Greg have to balance raising a small child with having a relationship with Paige and working at Sumner.

[Chris B]

I think Greg killed Laura. He took her out of the cul-de-sac which meeant we lost her relationships with Val, Karen and Abby. She was too out of the loop on that ranch. And they never played on that isolation. My favorite relationship of hers was with Abby. They had such awful history, yet were so much alike and worked well together. I also loved Richard. He was a cute little monkey. One of the best actors I've ever seen on soaps.

[DRW50]

Greg was part of the problem but probably what hurt her the most was that she was a very complicated character. She had parts of Valene (victimized) and parts of Karen (backbone, compassion) and parts of Abby (the wit and ferocity). As the years went by the writing for the women of Knots became more and more about putting them into archetypes. You couldn't do that with Laura. So when the time came to cut the budget, they got rid of what they saw as too difficult. They also had to prop Paige, and Laura going helped them push Paige.

To me the big mistake was downplaying the Laura/Valene friendship. In spite of Valene's ME ME ME WHAT ABOUT ME ME ME ME ME behavior at Laura's funeral, I loved their bond and although I liked Valene and Karen as friends, I always found Laura/Val more realistic and believable than the Valene/Karen, "We're best friends, let's reminds everyone of that every few episodes" vibe. Laura knew Valene's life because she had lived some of that, especially with Richard. I think in real life Karen would have gotten tired of Val.

They also could have done more to explore Laura's past. It's no surprise that the story which helped keep the show afloat in season 13 was all about Laura and her past. If only they'd done that when she was alive! I liked the last 3-4 years of the show but on a more superficial level than when Laura was there. She was the heart of KL. Her last episode, driving away and confiding in Karen and all that, still gets to me even when I think about it now.

Edited March 27, 2010 by CarlD2

[All My Shadows]

Richard's awesome! I've been watching the S2 DVDs, and even though I thought he was an annoying, smarmy ass in the pilot (still haven't seen the rest of S1), I love him in the second season because he's a smarmy ass.

I wish they'd get to moving with more seasons on DVD. It's bad enough I can't find the first anywhere anymore, but I really want to get into the heyday. I love the second season, but some of those episodes are absolutely dull (Karen and Diana putting on a happy face, for one).

[DRW50]

Do you have Netflix? The first season is still on that I think. Or it was. They're also being sold very cheap on Amazon.

Richard was a very pathetic character but John Pleshette was one hell of an actor. The episode where he has his mental breakdown is a marvel. And his final episode is very moving, especially his last scenes.

[YRBB]

Do you mean that in the good way, or do you actually think Richard was a bad character?

[DRW50]

I mean his character makeup. I wouldn't say he was a bad character, he was fascinating (I'd say a bad character would be most of Paige's boyfriends, or anyone brought in during season 13, or Kate, or Jean Hackney, or that weird Peter Reckell character whose accent vanished overnight). He was just a sad, sad loser, a waste of a man. Sometimes he did try, and I think in his heart he did love Laura, but it was never enough. I think in many ways he was intimidated by Laura...perhaps by the idea of his wife ever being strong, but I think it was more than just a wife, I think he could not ever really handle a woman like Laura. I wasn't hugely surprised that after he left he ended up finding someone and being happy with her, probably someone who did not have that fire which Laura had even when she was his beaten down homemaker.

Overall I think he was a great character to watch. I liked some stories more than others but some of them like his breakdown and his later freakout over the Ciji/Laura friendship were great drama. And one of my all time favorite scenes was after Sid fired him during the rape trial in early season 2 and he got drunk and began berating Richard in the street in the dead of night.

John Pleshette also hated LML so he'd fit in well here.

Edited March 27, 2010 by CarlD2

[EricMontreal22]

Stop talking about Knots I really wanna see seasons 3+ I think, reading about Dallas, a lot of the quality of the show is due to David Jacobs.

[YRBB]

Oh, OK, lol I completely agree--he was a fabulous, complicated, very real character. Played by a fantastic actor.

Sorry. lol David Jacobs is amazing--he really did some great work with DALLAS and KNOTS LANDING.

[KateW]

I remember the classic primetime soaps of the 1980s: Dallas, Knots Landing, Dynasty, Falcon Crest. They all started to go downhill after 1985 though. I enjoyed some of the short-lived soaps of the 1990s/2000s as well: Models Inc, Central Park West, Pacific Palisades, Titans.

[Paul Raven]

Don't know if this has been mentioned but the Bare Essence mini series is on YouTube (23 parts!)