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Latham has been in the ratings toilet since February, thats almost the entire year.

Depends on what February are you thinking of - if it's this year's February, it's hardly a year (much to my despair), if it's February last year, then it's not true. Which February are you talking about?

If only someone got rid of her...

I just checked the archives so i know.

Source?

All the stories I hate:

1. The porn issue

2. Amber - everything about her

3. Plum - what was the purpose of this stupid storyline.

4. Who is Adrian Korbel? This has been a mystery for a long time now.

5. Victor doesn't act like himself anymore. And I hate how Vikki is acting now.

6. Sharon acting like a tramp and Phyllis always getting away with things.

7. Gloria - I hate everything about her.

8. The way the ended the Carmen Mesta fiasco. Bad writing and why bring Jana back as a villan, stupid.

9. All dead people coming back as ghosts. How stupid. What is this Ghost Whisperer.

Awesome list...

ITa about everything although I think Jana as a villain was a pretty good choice because the actress is fabulous. Apart from, music to my ears. Y&R sucks!

All the stories I hate:

1. The porn issue

2. Amber - everything about her

3. Plum - what was the purpose of this stupid storyline.

4. Who is Adrian Korbel? This has been a mystery for a long time now.

5. Victor doesn't act like himself anymore. And I hate how Vikki is acting now.

6. Sharon acting like a tramp and Phyllis always getting away with things.

7. Gloria - I hate everything about her.

8. The way the ended the Carmen Mesta fiasco. Bad writing and why bring Jana back as a villan, stupid.

9. All dead people coming back as ghosts. How stupid. What is this Ghost Whisperer.

I say it again: The reason why Y&R isn't getting the abysmal rating it would deserve is that so many disgruntled ABC/NBC refugees are now watching.

Then LML has done a main part of her job. It doesn't matter who is watching as long as they watch.

Source?

The rating archives are on this board. The sources are Lstreet and Toups who post the ratings.

Back on topic, I don't really care for someone to redo the 'Bill Bell vision' because there will NEVER be another William J. Bell. Not even his proteges, Smith and Alden, were overtly successful in maintaining what Bell did, so I have no faith in anyone else doing so. That sad, all I want is a head-writer who learns the history of the show and its characters, writes CHARACTER-DRIVEN STORIES, and overall good storylines. There was a point in time where Y&R was the only soap where you could find character-driven material, now the show is just like the other 8 plot-driven messes disguising themselves as "soaps".

Then LML has done a main part of her job. It doesn't matter who is watching as long as they watch.

And this were you are wrong but at least you share this view with the people at the Network.

Those viewers are gone as quick as they came at the slightest sight of their original favorite soap back in track or even if Y&R slightly disappoints them. Longtime viewers have much more patience which of course sometimes has an end as well....

And this were you are wrong but at least you share this view with the people at the Network.

Maybe Ann works for the network. LOL. Wouldn't be the first time.

Those viewers are gone as quick as they came at the slightest sight of their original favorite soap back in track or even if Y&R slightly disappoints them. Longtime viewers have much more patience which of course sometimes has an end as well....

This is what many are forgetting...they think Y&R's gaining a new audience in disgruntled ABC/NBC fans is a good thing, but what they fail to realise is that the same audience that causes large increases and dips in the ratings is the same audience that is watching Y&R right now. The stablility and the assurance of Y&R's audience is being replaced by younger viewers who are soap-hoppers or that will watch for awhile. The new Y&R audience has no loyalty.

Maybe Ann works for the network. LOL. Wouldn't be the first time.

This is what many are forgetting...they think Y&R's gaining a new audience in disgruntled ABC/NBC fans is a good thing, but what they fail to realise is that the same audience that causes large increases and dips in the ratings is the same audience that is watching Y&R right now. The stablility and the assurance of Y&R's audience is being replaced by younger viewers who are soap-hoppers or that will watch for awhile. The new Y&R audience has no loyalty.

Amen, Bellcurve. Amen.

Understanding the network's thought process doesn't mean I necessarily share it, but I try to be realistic in my assessment of the situation. From the start on this thread, I stated quite clearly that I thought that LML is flawed. I said that she did has some good ideas, but there lots of flaws in her execution. I also noted all the things that thought that could be improved which is why I believe that she needs a consultant. If the ratings continued to decline and be erratic as they were under Alden and Smith, Y&R would be close to canceled by now. Also, I don't think that claim that Y&R is getting disgruntled ABC/NBC fans has any basis in fact. Where is the evidence of this? If it was true, Y&R would be up at least .3 points every week and that isn't happening. Y&R's fans, new, old and in between, are hanging in there for the time being. Until they leave, the network is not going to change course.

Now we have people claiming Latham saved Y&R from cancellation

Oh boy.

I don't think the show is perfect but I do think it's pretty good. And as I keep saying I'm enjoying it. I can hardly be the only one who is happy with what I'm seeing.

I don't believe Lynn is all-powerful nor do I think her work extends to every level of the show. I think there are others involved in the production, casting, etc. I think she's concentrating mainly on writing but of course having some say with other things. But I don't know this for a fact. I do however also believe she's being blamed for all kinds of things which other people have done.

I don't believe all the writing is being done by her and her alone, either. There are other people there consulting and coming up with stories. Lynn's husband, Josh Griffith & Scott Hamner are some of those people. Some of what's being blamed on Lynn is probably being cooked up by some of these other writers (and blame is a wrong word because I don't think there's all that much wrong with the show other than the Sheila fiasco.)

But I also believe the network & production companies are very much interested in changing the show in order for it to survive. Ratings are falling for all soaps in a downward spiral that's been going on for years.

It's finally hit those in charge that something has to be done to try to gain new viewers and keep a certain level of support for the shows. This will mean major changes.

I don't believe it's hit ABC because they're stuck in a bizarre time loop of idiocy. I've never seen such crap as has been going on over there.

But CBS & Days will probably be trying to fix, correct, and sustantially alter the shows to keep them going. ABC will probably keep going with the big bang shockers & the big boobs jiggling philosophy unless some heads roll.

In order to survive the shows are definitely going to have to make changes. They're going to have to grow up like the British shows. They have to find more daring & modern storytelling. The networks are going to have to hire writers who know what they're doing (Lynn has a long history writing and other examples like her might start showing up on daytime.)

And as I've said before the shows really have to cut the hour shows down to 1/2 hour. The bloating from the expansion is one of the major reasons for the sliding ratings. Most people just don't have time anymore to watch a show for 5 hours a week. People's lives get busier & busier all the time. Cutting the shows down would help the stories have higher quality.

The shows have been an hour for 30 years now so I don't buy that argument at all. I don't think cutting the shows back would help. Bringing in fresh, young new people to this genre would help. Storyline quality has nothing to do with the shows being an hour but everything to do with the vision less hacks that occupy the 9 HW positions in daytime currently. Sure Latham is not cooking up all this stuff on her own but as HW she takes responsibility for EVERYTHING that hits the screens because as HW she has final say on which direction the storyline will go.

Y&R's fans, new, old and in between, are hanging in there for the time being. Until they leave, the network is not going to change course.

But don't you see what fans are saying? They are saying...stop this woman NOW before the viewers leave. Y&R has always had a reputation of changing course if something isn't working. If Latham stays any longer, there will be irreversible damage to not only the groundwork Bill Bell has laid out, but to the cast and the ratings as well.

I said that she did has some good ideas, but there lots of flaws in her execution. I also noted all the things that thought that could be improved which is why I believe that she needs a consultant.

Lynn Marie Lethal doesn't need a consultant. She NEEDS to get the fock out of the CBS Studios, guards posted at the door galore. And take her band of hacks with her.

Now we have people claiming Latham saved Y&R from cancellation

Oh boy.

Tell me about it!

I don't think the show is perfect but I do think it's pretty good. And as I keep saying I'm enjoying it. I can hardly be the only one who is happy with what I'm seeing.

You're happy, but at the expense of Y&R fans who miss seeing characters act like themselves. They miss the unpredictability of the storytelling, the romance, the intrigue, and for God's sake, they miss cohesive, intelligent dialogue!

I don't believe Lynn is all-powerful nor do I think her work extends to every level of the show.

Why do you not believe that? She is the Head Writer/Executive Producer! Executive Producer in Daytime oversees all areas of production on their own show. Her fingers are in every pie at Y&R, anyone can see that.

I think there are others involved in the production, casting, etc. I think she's concentrating mainly on writing but of course having some say with other things.

If that's what she calls "concentrating on writing," I'd hate to see her not concentrating on Y&R.

I don't believe all the writing is being done by her and her alone, either. There are other people there consulting and coming up with stories. Lynn's husband, Josh Griffith & Scott Hamner are some of those people. Some of what's being blamed on Lynn is probably being cooked up by some of these other writers (and blame is a wrong word because I don't think there's all that much wrong with the show other than the Sheila fiasco.)

But I thought she mainly concentrated on writing?! If she is, then why are these people consulting and writing these terrible stories for her(like the murder of Carmen Mesta)?

And you would have to bring up the HAM. Christmas Dinner is on December 25!

But I also believe the network & production companies are very much interested in changing the show in order for it to survive. Ratings are falling for all soaps in a downward spiral that's been going on for years.

It's finally hit those in charge that something has to be done to try to gain new viewers and keep a certain level of support for the shows. This will mean major changes.

But those major changes need not be at the expense of the audience who has made your show the #1 show for many years. We have seen what happens when a show alienates its core audience...poor AW(high on the heels of Jim Reilly's success at DAYS) was forced to dumb down stories, change its look, and spend money like water at the expense of cohesive storytelling. The numbers dwindled and every change in HW and EP following(including the idiocy of Charlotte Savitz) sank the numbers even lower, because NBC/PGP thought to gain viewers they needed "major changes." When, what was wrong with the show to begin with was the storytelling. AW began telling stories that its core audience couldn't relate to or follow and people left, affiliates in major cities began dropping the show, cast members were fired or left because of how horrible things became.

I don't believe it's hit ABC because they're stuck in a bizarre time loop of idiocy. I've never seen such crap as has been going on over there.

You'll be seeing the same thing at CBS if Lynn Marie Lethal stays on Y&R as Head-Writer.

Con't...

But CBS & Days will probably be trying to fix, correct, and sustantially alter the shows to keep them going. ABC will probably keep going with the big bang shockers & the big boobs jiggling philosophy unless some heads roll.

And Y&R doesn't do stunts and aesthetics? What do you call the Ice Storm, Drucilla and Sharon playing Cliffhangers minus Yodeling, Nick's Plane Crash? Not to mention the firing of Adrianne Leon for a "security-issue free" actress and Scamber with her titillating porn chats with Daniel? Like it or not, Y&R has become an ABC show trapped in a CBS show's body. Next thing you know, they'll take some frames out for the film look and every single set will be made of white walls.

In order to survive the shows are definitely going to have to make changes. They're going to have to grow up like the British shows.

Y&R is behaving like a man with a mid-life crisis. How do you expect Y&R(or any soap for that matter) to grow up? And, I'm all for intelligent, character driven storytelling, but I don't think US shows need to copy anything from another country.

They have to find more daring & modern storytelling. The networks are going to have to hire writers who know what they're doing (Lynn has a long history writing and other examples like her might start showing up on daytime.)

That's scary. I remember a thread about six months ago listing who outside of daytime would make a terrific writer, and some on the list scared me, like one writer in particular who has a cult following. I have met said writer in person before and not only did he pooh-pooh the notion of soaps(even though his books read like something out of a cheap ABC soap episode), but the guy is extremely egotistical and relies on situations instead of characters to drive the stories. I've read exerpts from his books and I would be less-than-thrilled at his arrival to daytime.

We need people in daytime who care about soaps and care about writing for soaps, not people who are writing for soaps as "the last resort."

And as I've said before the shows really have to cut the hour shows down to 1/2 hour. The bloating from the expansion is one of the major reasons for the sliding ratings. Most people just don't have time anymore to watch a show for 5 hours a week. People's lives get busier & busier all the time. Cutting the shows down would help the stories have higher quality.

No, having people on the writing teams that actually understand and respect soaps would help stories have a higher quality. Cutting a show down to a half-hour isn't gonna make a damn bit of difference if you're being spoonfed crap from a dog's ass everyday. It just means less that you have to eat.

ETA: I'm not coming down on anyone or really picking on anyone who likes the current Y&R. These are just my thoughts of fans coming to the defense of a woman and her writing staff who are known hacks.

Edited June 27, 200718 yr by bellcurve