April 23-27, 2007

[KLN]

Last time I checked, Days isn't talked about in every thread. In the daily ATWT/Y&R/B&B/GL/etc. episode threads, they discuss those shows -- not Days.

In the threads that are started to bring in discussion from fans of various shows, yes... Days fans participate. It's not our fault that there are so many of us. Should we hold back on giving our input just because there are too many of us? This board has always had alot of Days fans posting, and all the whining over it sounds incredibly childish. "Mommy, they're talking about their show and not mine... no fair!" If we don't watch the show, we're not going to talk about it. Simple.

If you're not a Days fan, I can understand your frustration, but there's also no sense in complaining about it because nobody's in the wrong. The only thing I can suggest is trying to bring fans of different shows from other message boards to SON, that way it will give us a little more network diversity/representation. If that doesn't work, I don't know what to tell you, because I KNOW there are fans of every show on this board -- they just need to be more vocal. Honestly though, it's not the fault of us Days fans that we're vocal and involved in the threads and the fans of other shows aren't. We're certainly not stopping them from talking about their shows, and we certainly can't be faulted for them not participating in the threads.

[winterguy125]

I am not blaming DAYS fans at all, I just wish there was more discussion of the other soaps, I mean even I go into DAYS threads and post and I have only seen it a few times but I do comment sometimes, and I darn well most of the members on this site watch more than just DAYS, and it would be nice to see other topics other than just DAYS, DAYS fans have the same right as anyone else to post, I just wish everyone would start posting more about some of the other shows as well. As for you comment about join an ATWT board why should I have to, SON is about all the soaps or atlaest I would like to think it is anyway.

[David V]

Now whether you can blame Zucker's comments for the fall in ratings, it would seem merely coincidential that the sudden, drastic drop in ratings occurred after his comments took place, hence the debate and panic.

[Ilovemydays]

It could be coincidental, just as it could be coincidence that both DAYS and PASS got a bit of a bump after the news that PASS was going to DirecTV. It might not mean anything to some people but I for one am relieved. I can’t help thinking that, if Passions could find a home after NBC it seems more than likely DAYS can.

[LandonFan]

IMO the problem in ratings for ATWT and for all the soaps began back in the early 80s and since then there has been a steady decline in ratings year-over-year with, of course, some spikes up for a particular storyline or for a climatic scene or scenes (like in Dec 2005 with the baby switch/baby death reveals, last summer when the Will/Jade affair was revealed and that wonderful moment of Gwen slapping Jade -- loved that one! --- not a Jade fan , and (if I remember correctly) even the reveal of the Oakdale slasher caused a spike up in ratings). So, to blame any of the current actors for loss in soap viewership, which started so long ago, seems like a waste of time. I highly doubt that the trend is suddenly going to reverse itself no matter who is featured on any of the soap operas. It almost seems like it's a win if they can hold on to last years viewership numbers or show a lesser decline then in prior years. And that's a commentary on the whole genre of soap operas and not on particular actors IMO. Soap operas in general have a bad rep -- known for outlandish stories, poor writing, low production values, and often times being the training ground for inexperienced actors. In terms of that last 'problem' IMO ATWT is the exception because I think overall it has done a really great job in casting young talent and overall has one of the best casts in soaps.

For me, it is all about the storyline and not what actor is on my screen or how often an actor is on my screen. If I like the storyline then I like to watch the actors who are necessary to carry out that storyline. If I don't like the storyline then, of course, I am not going to enjoy seeing the actors who are involved in that storyline on my TV screen. So, for me, it all comes down to the story ideas themselves and then the writing ... give me a great story and good writing and I am a happy camper watching whichever ATWT actor is involved in that storyline and again I think that is because ATWT is blessed with a cast of wonderful actors for the most part (there have been some weak links from time to time or cases where a particular storyline is too much for an actor, like Maddie in her frontburner rape/slasher storyline of last year).

As to the use of vets ... I wish someone would define what that means because for a relatively new ATWT viewer like myself I look at most of the cast as vets. Carly, Jack, Katie, Emily, Dusty, Paul, Lily, Holden etc. are all vets to me. I also consider recasts of old characters as vets since their characters have a history, like Meg and Craig for example. If the only ones qualifying as vets are Nancy, Lisa, Bob and Kim (and a few others I guess in that age category) then I have to say ... no I don't want to watch a major frontburner storyline featuring vets. Sorry but I would find it just boring beyond words .... that would be something that would get me to turn off ATWT. Those vets had their day in the sun (frontburner storylines) in their younger years ... who knows maybe viewers were complaining back then about how much screen time those characters were getting.

I also think how one views who is 'frontburner' in a storyline varies. For example, JL/Gwen had a frontburner storyline in 2005 but for ALL of 2006 and for the beginning of 2007 I felt like her character has been used to prop up other characters' frontburner storylines. In 2006, the younger cast members who I thought had frontburner storylines were Maddie, Casey, Luke, Will and Jade, with Gwen just being used to fuel or prop up those storylines. Even in the return of Adam storyline, Gwen was used to give Adam a reason to stay in Oakdale otherwise he would have returned for Hal's funeral and then just gone back to CA and all of that was used to set up Casey's exit. There was talk about one of the younger set not re-upping their contract for almost a year now and ZR's contract was the only one coming up for renewal in that time frame so it was always obvious to me anyway that he was the one leaving so once again they used Gwen's (and Adam's) character as the catalyst to fuel Casey's exit storyline. So as a fan of Jennifer Landon I am hoping that this Gwen/Cleo storyline develops into a frontburner storyline for her and that her character stops being used as just a prop in other character's frontburner storylines.

[ATWTCarOn4Ever]

Excellent Post. I can say that I agree with most of what you said. As for ATWT I've been watching since around 1999 and that makes me fairly new too as well so we're in the same boat. It truly is a great show with an excellent cast. These ratings are indicative of the times and I think its more crucial that soaps hang onto the viewers they have now while taking a look at the situation and how it can be improved. This whole, "Blame Simon, Gwen, Will, Katie whoever is the most "hated" character on the show now" thing is just a poor excuse for a much more complicated problem. Gwen is a part of the teen scene. Besides Maddie's rape storyline I've just seen the last few months as an overall "teen/young adult storyline" that includes multiple facets of the same core jewel. The only problem is that they haven't shown a lot of Luke lately and thats going to change supposedly. The ratings for ATWT deserve to be much higher cuz in terms of content and quality few soaps are better. ATWT has consistently had storylines from year to year that have kept me intrigued, mystefied, and quitte frankly obsessed with the show.

On another note I'm glad you mentioned the general perception/opinion on soaps these days. Its a fact that most people just don't take soap operas that seriously in today's day and age. In fact a few of my friends laugh everytime I tell them about what I watched on ATWT. Not because they're mean but because they just don't understand. To them most soaps are just well...soapish. Not real life and not of any signifcance. And who can blame them when you see some of the trash that airs on shows like GH and Passions day after day, week after week, month after month, year AFTER year. Sorry but seeing demons and gang warfare isn't fun or innovative. Its quite boring and sad to watch really. Maybe its because society has changed or something but soaps aren't seen as crucial to daily existence for the vast majority of people. Which is why when I see people complain about actors/actresses who played parts on soap operas and went on to bigger and better things while not caring about the soap I get a lil confused. Soaps aren't the holy grail of tv anymore. To these actors its just a small stepping stone in their minds. And to be honest with the overall small audience numbers I can see why they think that. Some call it disrespect but I call it keeping it real. If an actor feels a certain way I'm not going to force him to feel otherwise. Not mention in someways its hard to escape Daytime if you're really good. It can be a very long commitment and some actors/actresses just don't want to make it and I can't be mad at them for that.

As for vets MY definition has more to do with age and lenght of time on show. Like while Carly, Jack, Holden, and Lily have been on for a while they are still no where near as advanced as Kim, Bob, Susan, and Barbara in my book. And vets do have their place and I don't mind seeing them onscreen but I do agree that if it was them front and center everyday it would get really boring really fast.

Like you mentioned, I just want good storylines, great writing, and characters that I love, hate, and love to hate...will the REAL Craig Montgomery stand up? Even though SB is an improvement to Meek the character is still quite disgusting nowadays. Hes just not as charming or as debonaire as Hunt Block was. Hunt Block knew now to convey desperation and thats sorely missing from the show. This "Craig" views his children as objects. When HB was in the role you could tell that he loved his children...no matter what. Even if he didn't go about it the right way he truly did care and they knew it as well so they could forgive him.

[Reddi]

I'd define a 'vet' as someone who has been on long enough that the old time viewers have an attachment to their character (they might not LIKE the character but feel they are part of the show.)

A newer viewer is not going to be affected the way an oldtimer is when vets are not used. But part of the problem with soaps declining ratings is they are losing the viewers who watched for years. It was those viewers who brought in new ones, and who were devoted enough to watch thru good times and bad (storyline wise).

If you lose that core, you lose the generation they turn on to soaps. You get more transient viewers, without the show loyalty. The soaps need to revitalize and bring on new characters in a way that does not alienate the older core viewers. Because you lose them, you lose a lot more than just those viewers.

I also use "vet" to mean more experienced actor (veteran actor vs veteran character). Weak actors come and go on soaps, but the strong ones often stay for a long time. So when you lose them, or don't use them, you end up with a weaker show with poorer acting. The less experienced actors learn from the veteran actors, and it makes the show stronger overall. The vets who have remained on the show have a presence a show needs to survive. A show with ONLY vets won't work, but a show that doesn't use it's vets will also have severe problems.

[numberonedaysfan]

Days numbers dropped because of bad writing and a very bad unbalanced show! thats the main reason! Hopefully hogan and ken corday have learned their lessons...Hogan sheffer has not proven his greatness yet to me!

[Euclid219]

But only DOOL and ATWT have lost more than 400,000 viewers in the past year. With DOOL the reasons have been discussed ad nauseum, as have the cause for McTavish's pink slip at AMC, but ATWT hasn't cut out a dozen characters or rewritten daytime's first abortion, so what is the story? Y&R has gained more than a quarter million viewers at the same that its CBS sister ATWT has lost nearly a half a million viewers. The 2 months to live Passions hasn't lost that many viewers. AMC hadn't lost that many when Megan got the boot. DOOL hadn't lost that many when Reilly was canned. While DOOL has lost slightly more, its cancellation has been announced, its remaining vets are MIA, and DOOL doesn't have a lead-in that's "Number 1, with a bullet", so ATWT's drop looks even more out of left field.

[numberonedaysfan]

your post is right on time.Why cant the execs see this?Why must every soap fan be subjected to a whole bunch of newbies who cant act?Why cant we have BALANCE?!

[Angela]

Save Y&R on any given week any given soap can have a loss of 10,000+ to 400,000+ viewers from the year before. DAYS is actually averaging 400,000+ less viewers than the year before every week. ATWT IMO is just doing a bit more bad than the middle pack soaps. I got the numbers out for 4 soaps:

AVG. 2007 LOSS OR GAIN IN COMPARISON TO PREVIOUS YEAR [Last 8 Wk. Included Only]

7. DAYS 2,840,000 (-89,000/-377,000) - 3/5

7. DAYS 2,918,000 (+78,000/-426,000) - 3/12

7. DAYS 2,738,000 (-180,000/-926,000) - 3/19

7. DAYS 2.774,000 (+36,000/-327,000) - 3/26

8. DAYS 2,610,000 (-164,000/-635,000) - 4/2

8. DAYS 2,625,000 (+15,000/-461,000) - 4/9

8. DAYS 2,442,000 (-183,000/-486,000) - 4/16

8. DAYS 2,629,000 (+187,000/-429,000) - 4/23

DAYS is averaging 508,000 LESS viewers a week.

9. PSNS 1,784,000 (-61,000/-249,000) - 3/5

9. PSNS 1,881,000 (+97,000/-294,000) - 3/12

9. PSNS 1,722,000 (-159,000/-565,000) - 3/19

9. PSNS 1,681,000 (-41,000/-139,000) - 3/26

9. PSNS 1,780,000 (+99,000/-246,000) - 4/2

9. PSNS 1,738,000 (-42,000/-317,000) - 4/9

9. PSNS 1,602,000 (-136,000/-370,000) - 4/16

9. PSNS 1,686,000 (+84,000/-180,000) - 4/23

PSNS is averaging 295,000 LESS viewers a week.

2. B&B 3,752,000 (-249,000/-356,000) - 3/5

2. B&B 3,770,000 (+18,000/-571,000) - 3/12

2. B&B 3,762,000 (-8,000/-599,000) - 3/19

2. B&B 3,816,000 (+54,000/-386,000) - 3/26

2. B&B 3,769,000 (-47,000/-213,000) - 4/2

2. B&B 4,168,000 (+399,000/+236,000) - 4/9

2. B&B 3,860,000 (-308,000/-101,000) - 4/16

2. B&B 3,878,000 (+18,000/-214,000) - 4/23

B&B is averaging 275,000 LESS viewers a week.

6. ATWT 2,978,000 (-165,000/-100,000) - 3/5

6. ATWT 2,952,000 (-26,000/-370,000) - 3/12

4. ATWT 3,052,000 (+100,000/-370,000) - 3/19

4. ATWT 3,072,000 (+20,000/-261,000) - 3/26

5. ATWT 2,996,000 (-76,000/-193,000) - 4/2

6. ATWT 3,010,000 (-116,000/-209,000) - 4/9

4. ATWT 3,126,000 (+130,000/+11,000) - 4/16

6. ATWT 3,044,000 (+34,000/-409,000) - 4/23

ATWT is averaging 237,000 LESS viewers a week.

4. AMC 3,171,000 (-196,000/-172,000) - 3/5

5. AMC 3,161,000 (-10,000/-319,000) - 3/12

5. AMC 3,033,000 (-128,000/-358,000) - 3/19

5. AMC 2,973,000 (-60,000/-4,000) - 3/26

4. AMC 3,009,000 (+36,000/-85,000) - 4/2

5. AMC 3,069,000 (+60,000/-206,000) - 4/9

4. AMC 3,118,000 (+49,000/-289,000) - 4/16

5. AMC 3,213,000 (+95,000/-234,000) - 4/23

AMC is averaging 208,000 LESS viewers a week.

8. GL 2,648,000 (-246,000/-89,000) - 3/5

8. GL 2,633,000 (-15,000/-363,000) - 3/12

8. GL 2,677,000 (+44,000/-178,000) - 3/19

8. GL 2,622,000 (-55,000/-333,000) - 3/26

7. GL 2,757,000 (+135,000/+57,000) - 4/2

7. GL 2,782,000 (+25,000/+46,000) - 4/9

7. GL 2,626,000 (-156,000/-234,000) - 4/16

7. GL 2,817,000 (+191,000/-91,000) - 4/23

GL is averaging 148,000 LESS viewers a week.

5. OLTL 3,039,000 (-172,000/-83,000) - 3/5

4. OLTL 3,196,000 (+157,000/-47,000) - 3/12

6. OLTL 3,024,000 (-172,000/-325,000) - 3/19

5. OLTL 2,973,000 (-51,000/-11,000) - 3/26

6. OLTL 2,901,000 (-72,000/-301,000) - 4/2

6. OLTL 2,898,000 (-3,000/-233,000) - 4/9

5. OLTL 3,023,000 (+125,000/-138,000) - 4/16

4. OLTL 3,281,000 (+258,000/+80,000) - 4/23

OLTL is averaging 132,000 LESS viewers a week.

3. GH 3,606,000 (-121,000/+209,000) - 3/5

3. GH 3,592,000 (-14,000/+34,000) - 3/12

3. GH 3,364,000 (-228,000/-295,000) - 3/19

3. GH 3,227,000 (-137,000/-148,000) - 3/26

3. GH 3,272,000 (+45,000/-234,000) - 4/2

3. GH 3,390,000 (+118,000/-70,000) - 4/9

3. GH 3,269,000 (-121,000/-120,000) - 4/16

3. GH 3,604,000 (+335,000/+228,000) - 4/23

GH is averaging 49,000 LESS viewers a week.

1. Y&R 5,410,000 (-378,000/+228,000) - 3/5

1. Y&R 5,268,000 (-142,000/-275,000) - 3/12

1. Y&R 5,303,000 (+35,000/-280,000) - 3/19

1. Y&R 5,210,000 (-93,000/-252,000) - 3/26

1. Y&R 5,379,000 (+169,000/+97,000) - 4/2

1. Y&R 5,655,000 (+276,000/+355,000) - 4/9

1. Y&R 5,463,000 (-192,000/+100,000) - 4/16

1. Y&R 5,498,000 (+35,000/+253,000) - 4/23

Y&R is averaging 28,000 MORE viewers a week.

ETA: Added the other 5 Soap.

[Euclid219]

^^^

Thank you so much! Your chart summed it up beautifully. I wasn't saying that ATWT was in as a bad a shape as DOOL, but it appears to be in worse condition than AMC and AMC's headwriter has been unceremoniously dumped. I have heard calls for Fron's, McTavish's, Higley's, Corday's and Sheffer's heads on a platter often enough on this board, I just wondered what the deal was with ATWT. ATWT is placed pretty snuggly in the CBS pack, and GL is the CBS soap with the most depressing press, so it seems odd to me.

[ATWTCarOn4Ever]

Thanks for those numbers....I don't feel totally bad/dumb for saying that ATWT isn't in horrible shape.

[Soapsuds]

Dont know what numbers you are looking at. But the last numbers I saw ATWT was still at an all time low.

[ATWTCarOn4Ever]

I'm not the only one who has posted regarding ATWT in this thread and yet you find the time to specifically QUOTE ME and respond with another rude remark. You're so intent on making me say something against the rules. Quite pathetic really. I wasn't talking to you nor was I addressing you. You can preach your "doom and gloom" theory elsewhere cuz I'm not listening. You've already decided the show is crap but I don't believe thats true and I don't think the ratings are absolutely horrible. I think theres hope for the show and I pray it gets even better.