Members SteveFrame Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 As to the Erica thing. I agree that what Erica did was just as bad as what Babe did too. Maybe both of them did have post partum depression - who knows but it wasn't written that way. That is the reason I have trouble with Erica being so hard on Babe when she did the same thing. Erica has never been a pillar of society or morals but every time she preaches about Babe & Krystal and what they did it makes her look like a moron and a hypocrite to me. I never bought that Erica was sorry about what she did anymore than I buy that Babe really is. They are both equal to me in that right. And I remember the story as others that Erica did many of the same things to Maria that Babe did to Bianca. And Rugrat, I agree with you about the writing trying to prop Ryan & Babe's actions but sorry as you said it is the writing of the characters that we have to deal with - we have to see them as they are now. And as much as I hate both of them now, I still see Ryan & Bianca's reasons as better than Kendalls. I see Kendall as just as much of hypocrite as Erica. I just wish once that Maria would have been around to call Erica on it when she was preaching the Babe hate. It would be an excellent nod to history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EricaKane70 Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Well opal was her best friend, so that had to hurt. A rock was thrown in her window shows that the town was on marias side. Erica and travis decided it was best that binks stay with travis so erica didn't get to see her child for years after the anorexia storyline. Binks showing up in 2000 I believe is the first time erica had really seen her daughter outside of the anorexia facility. She only gained jack back after she pleaded guilty otherwise she would have lost him. Only was let out of prison because her child was dying otherwise she would of been in there another 8 months. Only got her company back because it was in the crapper and haley didn't want it. So erica only gained some wins when she took her punishment, and I wouldn't necessarily say all were wins though. Boohoo babe lost little A for 5 seconds, she was always with him, so she basically lost nothing. I think erica paid her dues, she had brattie for about 4 months and was in prison for 4 months. I think almost losing her child in death was punishment enough.imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angela Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Okay taking this at a different angle, Skin, not that I can't still debate the other angle - it's just long-winded and I have to get going. Erica owns up to the fact that she's a selfish bitch who does selfish and bitchy things...Babe literally buys into the fact that everything she does is out of love and she's being persecuted for it - not in my book, in my book Babe is as selfish and self-serving as any other bitch and bastard in this town if not more so. And nobody really has ever said Erica acts with her heart and is the meaning of love for her self-serving, awful actions (I bet not even E/M when they testified) as much as it's been said for Babe: it's been said by mama, Adam, Bianca, JR, Jamie, Josh, basically Dixie, etc... and well everybody else is backburned or/and seen as evil (including those character I mentioned when they don't see the light). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Steve ICAM with your thoughts on Erica preaching the wrongs of babystealing to Babe and Krystal when she did the same thing to Maria just years earlier. Moreover unless my memory is begining to fade did Erica not ask Babe to push Bianca down the stairs so that way she wouldn't have to endure the trauma of giving birth to Micheal Cambius's baby? Did she not ask Babe to make sure that Miranda and Bianca never met because then Miranda would destroy Bianca from the inside out and destroy her as a person? These are the things she said about Miranda. Her own granddaughter. She practically gave Babe permission to steal her in the first place then got all self righteous when she did! Ugh! I can't stand Erica. I never liked her while Susan's performence is charming most of the time I just can't stand her. I never felt Erica was sorry. I felt that Babe was. So I can except the forgiveness. Moreover I feel that Maria was extra nice to Erica on various occassions just as Bianca has been towards Babe. It's the same exact story! I think Kendell is just as much her mother's daughter and I feel she too has tried to keep children away from there parent as well. The best example of this is Spike, and Emma. Now seeing as she is going to try to make it so in the event of her death Ryan can't have custody of Spike it's just more of the same. I can't see Kendell or Erica as any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 While I do understand the frustrations of fans who don't like Babe being seen as a good person. I genuinely believe that she is a good natured person. I believe that. I think that she is a goo natured person who doesn't always do the right things and for the most part I always saw her as someone who was reacting to something she felt she lost, didn't have or felt that she wasn't good enough. Erica is a [!@#$%^&*] and her admitting it doesn't make me like her anymore. I hate her even more so because she knows she is being vile, cruel, hurtful , [!@#$%^&*] and she seemingly likes it. Babe atleast I believe doesn't like hurting people but she doesn't seemingly mean to do it. She is just to short sighted to see it and just goes around oblivious to it all. I can except self centered, stupid, gut reaction over mainpulative, evil, heartless [!@#$%^&*]iness. Babe may be wrong for everything she does. Which I believe she owns up to. But I never saw her directly do something to simply cause pain or harm. I see her as desperate, angry, sad, ect. But I never saw her as a hateful person. Erica is treated as such because she truely is a [!@#$%^&*] and she acts as such. That's the difference. I don't see Babe as a [!@#$%^&*]. I see her more or less as a person who tries to do what she feels is right and doesn't truely mean to hurt anyone but is only trying to do the best that she can due to what she was taught as a child. Erica is just a [!@#$%^&*] and she knew better because she had Mona. Babe is understandable because she had Krystal. Erica had a good role model and she was just an obnoxious diva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angela Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 No matter what Kendall and Erica have done they get called on it by general karma, that's the difference - they're always seen as the faulted "bad" guys. Kendall didn't even really get to do anything and she's being punished more than Ryan will be punished for actually taking her kid from her for what adds up to messed up reasoning and using a child to drug somebody (if Kendall did that, Ryan would tell the story to Pine Valley for years to come and called her a soulless cancer or something). Babe's karma for kidnapping babies is getting and taking companies as revenge on Kendall and her victims undying love. Kendall's karma after almost giving her life for Bianca was to be seen as the town parriah, be shunned by the man she loves, etc... Babe's karma for taking stock in the company of the woman's life she almost tore apart by keeping Miranda for her own benefit was getting JR's undying love and full custody of A3 no matter what. Kendall's karma for JUST plotting to break up Annie/Ryan is to be told she's not worthy of love (Ryan) and have her kid taken from her, w/o visitation unless it's for the father to do druggings, for reasoning that does not make sense. I've never felt Babe was sorry for anything she's done, I just think she's a narcissistic (thinks she's fabulous) sociopath (generally only cares about how she's percieved and doesn't sincerely feel guilty). Honestly. In Kendall, David and JR's case I see/feel "self-hatred" there a lot, self-doubt - it makes a lot of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 I guess this is where we disagree. The "Karma" thing is interpretive IMO. We could say that any hardship a character goes threw is a form of "karmic" pay back. So that to me douses the karmic stuff. Babe has had her own fair share of karma IMO. It came in forms of JR, Janet and Paul. Those three have done horriable things to her and that could be seen as her form of karma. Kendell's form of karma could be seen as Ryan and Greenlee in earlier cases maybe Erica. Erica's karma could be Babe, Silver, ect. My point is everyone on the show has had some type of karmic rebound in some way. As to Kendell and Erica being pinned as the fall out guys. I disagree. If anything I feel that Kendell has been written as this super heroine and was written as such for years and even now she is still being seen in her mind as doing nothing wrong. Erica and Kendell don't feel that they do anything wrong or that they should have to really give back to the peoeple they have wronged. In there minds they feel the other person deserved it. Key point Greg Madden, Jack and Ryan. In all of these cases they still don't realize they were as wrong as two left shoes. I disagree about Babe to. I think overall she just wants to be liked. She has a huge fear of being lonely. Hence why I feel she is always so clingly and I feel deep inside of her she just wants to be close to someone and wants to have a happily ever after with her knight in shining armor. I get a huge feeling of loneliness in Alexa's portrayal of Babe. Hence why Babe is always trying to reach out to people and tries to make people like her. She has shown this side many times with Sydney, Amanda, Josh, Zoe and even Janet and Greenlee when they were on. I don't feel that Kendell hates herself. I felt that way when she came on earlier. But as of late I feel she has come into her own and she is confident in herself and no longer has that self-esteem problem. As to JR I never felt a self hatred there either. IMO he is quite pleased with himself most of the time and I just think he's a bastard spawn of Adam in every concieveable way possiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members David_Vickers Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Exactly and Babe is yet another reason I am about to quit watching AMC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tina m Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 That is crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DruRocks Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Babe could be salvaged with good writing. It's the writing being so one sided that pisses fans off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EricaKane70 Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Babe can not be salvaged, I want her gone. ASAP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DruRocks Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 It would be tough, but it could happen. Just believe my child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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