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ABC/NBC: Hypocrisy concerning criticism of Frons

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I think that's just part of being a fan of that show. Seriously, how many of us ABC/AMC fans really wanted to admit how much trouble our network/show is in? Sure as hell not me. I knew it was. I yelled. I complianed. I [!@#$%^&*]ed. I moaned. But I always held out hope that it would get better. And I admired those who were still seeing something redeeming. However the fact is, and the ratings no show it, is that ABCD, most specifically AMC and OLTL are in trouble. :( There's no two ways around it.

Frons, rather then see that there's a problem. Rather then listen to the fans that are screaming, begging him to fix our show, he tells us he knows what we want, and that we have to be trianed. We apperently, don't know what we want to watch, but he does, and he's right. Even though NO one is watching these soaps. He runs his mouth, and has nothing to back it up. NOTHING. He lets women on his network be violated left and right, and then when the fans hit him with extreme backlash (ie. Josh) he shuts up, and doesn't try and tell me why this is okay. Why this [!@#$%^&*] is nesesscary. He is a sexest, masoginistic, ageist, pig.

I know nothing about NBCD's high ups, and that I think, proves the whole point of this thread.

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  • Member
Something that I notice with DAYS fans is that a lot of them (not all, mind you) seem to ALWAYS defend what's currently on their screen. But once changes are made, then they bash what the show was before those changes.

For example, people were singing the show's praises all throughout the spring and early summer, but once it was speculated that Sheffer was coming in, people were quick to dismiss what JER was doing for the show, even tho, just weeks earlier, they were hailing his return to traditional storytelling.

This was not meant as an attack towards any person or group, it was just an observation that I've noticed.

I am one of those Days fans and let me just say I have a reasoning behind that. I never thought Days could be as good as it is right now again. The show has not been this good and looked this promising in years. I had hope it would improve but nothing like this. B&C in 2002 were the closest Days came to what they are right now but even then things didn't line up as well as they do now IMO. That is why I defended alot of what was going on. Even during the Langan and Higley periods I defended it to people because I have never stopped watching and love the show so much I have come to except whatever is given. I guess I am a rare commodity in this day and age of quitting when a show goes bad. It does not mean I didn't recognize the quality was nothing comapred to what it was. I knew Days under Langan, Higley, and at times under JER was bad but Days has so many vets and so many characters that have been around for years that it is hard to break from that and turn the channel on them. They are like a family to me because, unlike many other shows, Days has so many characters played by the same actors that have been around for decades.

I praised the show alot from July 2005-March 2006 because it was making strides story-wise. It was at least holding my attention and was delivering some solid moments. It wasn't until April and May of this year that I said it was getting boring and that JER was burnt out. I mean Days was pretty good the last half of last year and then the first 3 months of this year I thought were really good because of the performances and basically the Zach story, Lexie story, some good moments with J&M, and the Shimi wedding. After March, the show seemed lost and things just went stagnant and then I knew something needed to be done so that is my defense why I did that.

As for always defending Days, I always will because most times I will like everything as long as it is written well enough. My standards are higher now seeing as the show has improve to levels I never thought I would never see again but I like pretty much all the characters and actors so that is why I defend pretty much everything. It's not just optimism-it's the way I feel.

I will also say some others have done the same thing as I have for others shows. There isn't as many but there are others. I see them here and all over the net. It's just a matter of preference and what you are looking for I guess. It's also part of being a fan and how passionate some are as some are more passionate then others.

  • Member

Also, maybe some people were not around when KC, JER and NBCD were getting ripped from one side to the other, not just on this board, but others as well. Hell, I don't eevn watch ABCD and find his comments appauling. We know he reads this board, by what had happened earlier this summer with McTavish. So, maybe he needs to get a grip and stop with the arrogant talk about what fans don't want and do want.

The quickest way to destroy daytime soaps is to act like you know what people want instead of listening to the fans. That doesn't mean you have to listen to every single thing we say, but we are the soaps' lifeblood, and if we leave, that's it. You see that NBCD and Corday gt the hint when Days was getting destroyed and the ratings were in the toilet.

  • Member

A lot of good points have been made here, though it's nothing we haven't gone through before. It is true that the criticism of Frons and co is legitimite, because of the fact that they've ruined the integrity of once great shows. The fundamental difference is that ABC had, since the late 1970s anyway, a good record in Daytime until Frons took over.

NBC on the other hand, with the credible exception of the 1970s, has generally had an abysmal record in Daytime. And frankly I don't blame people for feeling bitter that Another World and Sunset Beach got the chop, especially considering that the demise of both soaps greatly worsened the overall quality of NBC's Daytime lineup. Passions might appeal to a certain demographic, but it doesn't take itself seriously and will never grow beyond that niche. Days on the other hand has a large fanbase which can easily be tapped into- and if they did, Days could easily be near the top once more. As a network, generally, NBC really has the great Law & Order franchise to thank as a saving grace in recent years.

The whole "ageism" thing rang true when Tom Langan took over as Days HW in 1999. Because he created "Saved by the Belle" which until the past few years was one of the worst periods any soap went through in the past 25 years. Apart from the the Black/Stern disaster at ATWT, which TBH was really prophetic of the horrors that would sweep the genre in the new millennium...

Hence I guess that's why Frons and co are being panned far more, because they have ruined a once excellent lineup.

  • Member
Something that I notice with DAYS fans is that a lot of them (not all, mind you) seem to ALWAYS defend what's currently on their screen. But once changes are made, then they bash what the show was before those changes.

For example, people were singing the show's praises all throughout the spring and early summer, but once it was speculated that Sheffer was coming in, people were quick to dismiss what JER was doing for the show, even tho, just weeks earlier, they were hailing his return to traditional storytelling.

This was not meant as an attack towards any person or group, it was just an observation that I've noticed.

So untrue.

Clearly you were not here during the serial killer story, the aftermath, the threads dealing with actor firings, the Matt Ashford thread that crashed SON. Or, you just have a short memory.

People were "praising" the spring/ early summer because it was an improvment over what we had been stuck with. For those who had continued with the show, I didn't, it was alot better than the [!@#$%^&*] before it. Though it was never great, and it was never up to par with what Days is. But, when you find out you're getting a 4 time emmy winner as your writer, whom you know will get results, any fool would choose that over something you're only moderately pleased with. Comon sense!

Ugh. I hate it when people flaunt the fact that their show has a low number of young people on contract. Ageism goes both ways and I think it's just as bad to have 7 young people on contract as it is to have 7 older people on contract. There should be a balance on both ends.

And what those #s show is ballance, agewise, in the Days cast. Not in the AMC, GH, or certainly the OLTL casts. The show is not all old people, it is certainly not all young people. There is a small set of people under 30, there's a small set of people under 40, there's another small set of people under 50, there's a decent sized group of people over 50 - whether they get screen time or not.

We don't do what ABC does, fire people over 50, or offer them pity-recurring status when we know we're not going to use them just so we don't have to go into a meeting and tell the actor face to face they're fired.

  • Member

I think I should drop something on all of you: Guess who was the big man in charge on NBC Daytime when Search For Tomorrow was cancelled? Brian Frons.

  • Member
I think I should drop something on all of you: Guess who was the big man in charge on NBC Daytime when Search For Tomorrow was cancelled? Brian Frons.

While that is true, let's not forget the fact that SFT had its death warrant signed the day it moved from CBS to NBC. Many NBC affiliates either didn't pick SFT up, or they might have but then dropped it.

  • Member
So untrue.

Clearly you were not here during the serial killer story, the aftermath, the threads dealing with actor firings, the Matt Ashford thread that crashed SON. Or, you just have a short memory.

Actually, I was. I've been here since June 2003, so I've seen everything that you're talking about. And you know what else? I also saw the banners made for the serial killer storyline, the little play-by-plays in the signatures, the "oh that's gonna be cool!"s when the death scenes of various veterans were spoiled. I also saw the "ready for round 2?" banners when it was announced that Austin and Carrie were returning. I saw people screaming that DAYS was too underrated and that Reilly was GREAT at writing traditional storylines. And of course people were upset about Matthew Ashford. You don't think people were upset about John Callahan or Jill Larson or Tonya Pinkins or, more recently, Vincent Irizarry? Firing a loved vet is going to bring the anger out in people.

And what those #s show is ballance, agewise, in the Days cast. Not in the AMC, GH, or certainly the OLTL casts. The show is not all old people, it is certainly not all young people. There is a small set of people under 30, there's a small set of people under 40, there's another small set of people under 50, there's a decent sized group of people over 50 - whether they get screen time or not.

We don't do what ABC does, fire people over 50, or offer them pity-recurring status when we know we're not going to use them just so we don't have to go into a meeting and tell the actor face to face they're fired.

Oh...I get it. When someone takes a shot at NBC, you are offended and insulted as well, because NBC equals "we" to you. I see.

  • Member

Does this thread really need to turn into yet another tiresome, unwanted DAYS fans vs. everyone else thread? I hope this certainly wasn't Max's intention...despite his obvious bias against NBC.

  • Member
Does this thread really need to turn into yet another tiresome, unwanted DAYS fans vs. everyone else thread? I hope this certainly wasn't Max's intention...despite his obvious bias against NBC.

That's the last thing I want to see too, but everytime I ever say ANYTHING negative about DAYS or NBC, someone replies with some kind of comment after which I'm supposed to feel like I'm wrong. I specifically said that I didn't want to attack anyone personally and I even clarified that I wasn't trying to use generalizations or anything.

  • Member

Honestly AMS, I don't see what your problem is.

Something that I notice with DAYS fans is that a lot of them (not all, mind you) seem to ALWAYS defend what's currently on their screen. But once changes are made, then they bash what the show was before those changes.

For example, people were singing the show's praises all throughout the spring and early summer, but once it was speculated that Sheffer was coming in, people were quick to dismiss what JER was doing for the show, even tho, just weeks earlier, they were hailing his return to traditional storytelling.

This was not meant as an attack towards any person or group, it was just an observation that I've noticed.

First off, there will always be fans who defend their favorite show no matter how much the show has gone to sugar honey iced tea.

I don't know what threads you were reading, but not everyone was singing the show's praises all throughout the spring and early summer. I know for a fact that many SON members were not too happy with the overall state of the show. Every writer is capable of churning out a few good episodes. That happens with even the most horrible writers. There's a difference between having a string of well written episodes and having a well written show.

People were not quick to dismiss what JER was doing for the show. Especially since many of said that they believe JER is a good writer but was just had too much on his plate. Even the people who were hailing his "return" to traditional writing were probably hailing his team more than him or on top of that, the show's return to it's traditional storytelling. Fan can tell the difference between a JER written episode and a episode written by someone else other than the head writer (or any writer for that matter).

I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

For instance, I happen to think that Friday's and today's episode of AMC has been the best written episodes we've seen in a LONG while. Just because I think those episodes were good doesn't mean that I think McTravesty is a good writer (though I think she is when she has a lot of help).

For you to say that that DAYS fans (even if you say not all of them) seem to do what you said could be taken as offensive.

I know that I've defended DAYS many a time because some people tend to say that DAYS is a bad show with bad actors. That is not the case. One could count the bad actors on DAYS with one hand, and still not use all of their fingers. What angers me is people who DON'T watch the show want to try and go with the general and misguided opinions of others and bash it (or any show for that matter). So yes, DAYS fans defend their show, but not for the reasons you stated.

  • Member
I know that I've defended DAYS many a time because some people tend to say that DAYS is a bad show with bad actors. That is not the case. One could count the bad actors on DAYS with one hand, and still not use all of their fingers.
That is completely subjective! Please remember that I do not see what's so great about Dee Hall, Drake Hogestyn, Peter Reckell, and Kristian Alfonso, not to mention many others. Just because some people are generally considered great doesn't mean everyone considers them great.

I don't know what threads you were reading, but not everyone was singing the show's praises all throughout the spring and early summer.

Which is why I made sure to say "not all." I also should have said "not most." It's just a small pocket of DAYS fans that I noticed that trend in.

The big deal is that there have been several times in the past where all I did was state my opinion regarding DAYS and I get jumped on by someone who disagrees. The one instance that REALLY stands out for me is when there was thread where we were asked to comment on Dee's acting. I stated exactly what I felt about it, and then someone got on me, said that I had no idea what I was talking about, and then someone else said that I was only putting down Dee's acting BECAUSE she's on DAYS. I'm tired of being unjustly accused of being one of the people who bash DAYS just to bash DAYS.

  • Member

The way that you can't see what's so great about Deidre Hall, is the same way some people can't see what's go great about Susan Lucci, Walt Willey, Alicia Minshew and many others. It's all a matter of opinion.

You may be tired of being "unjustly" accused, but when you exhibit the signs of being someone who bashes DAYS just to bash DAYS, what do you expect people to think?

  • Member
The way that you can't see what's so great about Deidre Hall, is the same way some people can't see what's go great about Susan Lucci, Walt Willey, Alicia Minshew and many others. It's all a matter of opinion.
Well, I don't really care what people say about Susan, Walt, or Alicia. It's not like them having opinions makes mine less important.

You may be tired of being "unjustly" accused, but when you exhibit the signs of being someone who bashes DAYS just to bash DAYS, what do you expect people to think?

Please let it go on record then that I do NOT bash DAYS just to bash it. I want every single soap on the air to do it's very best, DAYS included, and it HAS been good lately, it HAS, but it still suffers from many of the same problems that have been there for a while now.

  • Member

I don't think you'll find many DAYS fans who say the show is perfect right now...it's not. It's still in transtition. Any writer who has to clean up the mess that JER made before he left doesn't have it easy. There are some things that need working on. But the show is miles better than it has been.

I will say that the bashing DAYS just to bash it has fallen by the wayside. Time will tell once Hogan's stuff really starts to kick in, but at least fans can't be ashamed of their show now.

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