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ABC/NBC: Hypocrisy concerning criticism of Frons

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  • Member

Certainly, Brian Frons deserves to be criticized for both his ageist behavoir and responsibility for destorying his network's daytime division. Just today, another anti-Frons thread was started here at SON to protest all the damage he has done.

Please pardon my rudeness, however, when I said that it seems very hypocritical for some folks here to bash Frons while--at the same time--refusing to criticize NBC for doing the same things. Consider the following points:

*Ageism: Although Frons is very ageist, the heads of NBC Daytime are even worse on this matter; while Frons at least values females up to the age of 49, NBC believes that all viewers under 35 are worthless. NBC, of course, constantly touts Passions as a great soap simply because it does well among females 12-34, despite the fact that its ratings are horrific when it comes to total viewers. As a matter of fact, AW (which received none of the special promotional treatment afforded to Passions, but rather was completely neglected) was cancelled--despite the fact that it had better ratings (in its last year) than Passions (had in its first year)--in favor of Passions because AW only attracted viewers 35 and older; from NBC's perspective, losing such "worthless" viewers was fine with them.

*Lack of respect for history: It's no secret that Frons disrespects the histories of AMC, OLTL, and GH, as he tries to radically remake these soaps. However, I can't think of any soap that has deviated so much from its history than DOOL: what was originally a traditional soap has now been turned into a campy, cheesy, special effects-dominated show.

*Trying to rebrand all the network's soaps as one megasoap: Many complaints arise over Frons' desire to blur the distinctions of the ABC soaps and turn them into just one three-hour long soap called "All My Lives to Live at General Hospital." However, since Passions' inception, both it and DOOL have been joined at the hip. Certainly, by the time JERk became DOOL's head-writer for the second time, there were virtually no differences (other than the cast members) between these two soaps. However, I must concede that things may have improved after Corday (much to the protest of NBC) fired JERk; yet, even with this occurrence, the two shows are still way too similar given that JERk's long tenure (if you also count his first stint as head-writer) has had a permanent influence on the show.

*Destruction of the network's soap lineup: Of course, Frons has destoryed ABC Daytime so much to the point that it is in its worst shape ever. Yet, NBC Daytime is in even worse shape: unlike ABC, NBC has only a bare-bones lineup of two soaps, and the average rating of both NBC soaps is much lower than the average rating of all the ABC soaps. Also, while Frons is nortorious for neglecting OLTL and treating it like the black sheep of the network's daytime lineup, at least he has not been dumb enough to cancel this beloved, long-running soap; no sir, it was only NBC that was stupid enough to cancel a beloved and long-running soap when it cancelled AW.

So, again, I want to ask you folks why so many here hate Frons/ABC while so few hate NBC and its executives?

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  • Member

Perhaps because Frons has video taped interviews on SN promoting ABCD in which he makes disparaging comments such as training the viewers to accept his version of the soap or the public comments he makes about the weight of popular actresses he doesn't consider to measure up.

  • Administrator
So, again, I want to ask you folks why so many here hate Frons/ABC while so few hate NBC and its executives?

Because maybe we haven't heard anything from Annamarie Kostura and Tom Alfieri since they took over NBC Daytime. They haven't made any comments in the magazines, or showed up on SoapNet, or made sure their faces were shown at the Daytime Emmys, or playing favorites with couples, or made comments about other soaps, or said anything about retired old people, or kissing up to actors, or making comments on people's weight.

So basically, we don't know much about Kostura or Alfieri to criticize or praise.

  • Author
  • Member

After reading Toups' post, I realize that I need to clairfy something: in my original post, I should have asked why there has been so much more criticism of ABC and Frons than of the actions of NBC and its executives over the past eight years; because the current heads of NBC Daytime are new to their jobs, I should not have worded my question by asking (as I originally did) why has there been so little criticism of the current NBC executives.

  • Member
Because maybe we haven't heard anything from Annamarie Kostura and Tom Alfieri since they took over NBC Daytime. They haven't made any comments in the magazines, or showed up on SoapNet, or made sure their faces were shown at the Daytime Emmys, or playing favorites with couples, or made comments about other soaps, or said anything about retired old people, or kissing up to actors, or making comments on people's weight.

So basically, we don't know much about Kostura or Alfieri to criticize or praise.

AMEN!

I was going to respond similarly but you said it all perfectly.

  • Member

We know you hate all things NBC since they canceled AW, but please move on. It's not that serious.

  • Member

I'm angry at Frons for what he did at ABC. I'm not angry at NBC. That is why I criticize ABC and not NBC. Max, you feel free to criticize whoever you want. I don't feel any obligatin to measure Frons destructin of ABC against anything that is happening at any other network. If you do, have at it. Why do you care who anybody else likes or dislikes?

  • Administrator
After reading Toups' post, I realize that I need to clairfy something: in my original post, I should have asked why there has been so much more criticism of ABC and Frons than of the actions of NBC and its executives over the past eight years; because the current heads of NBC Daytime are new to their jobs, I should not have worded my question by asking (as I originally did) why has there been so little criticism of the current NBC executives.

There has more critism of Frons because of the things I stated above:

They haven't made any comments in the magazines, or showed up on SoapNet, or made sure their faces were shown at the Daytime Emmys, or playing favorites with couples, or made comments about other soaps, or said anything about retired old people, or kissing up to actors, or making comments on people's weight.

You also don't see Kostura or Bloom running their mouths or showing favoritism to certain actors.

Everyone President gets bashed. Susan Lee, Sheraton K, Lucy Johnson, Angela Shapiro were all criticized during their tenures.

Maybe people seem to hate Frons more is because he's a loud mouth and says stupid things.

  • Member

I believe Frons gets his rightful criticisms because he's always opening his big yap and uttering tremendously stupid and insulting comments.

If you read the boards, you will see countless criticisms of Ken Corday for the state of DOOL, and Reilly for the state of Passions.

I didn't even know the name of the woman who had replaced Sheraton Kalouria - who I also thought was an idiot who spoke out of turn. THAT is how little the woman has talked since she got the job.

Plus, I believe that there is a different expectation - a lowered expectation from NBC Daytime in general because it has been the LEAST reliable network where the daytime genre is concerned, and this is going back DECADES.

If Frons would keep his yap shut, the venom wouldn't be pointed towards him. As it is, it's well spread out for him as well as the Headwriters, all of whom get slammed on this and other boards on a regular basis.

As for NBC, there are plenty of posters, myself included, who repeatedly point out the shortcomings of the network.

Frons, McGarbage, Guza, and Horror Phelps are all on the same level for me, and they all should be on the same level - UNEMPLOYED for the talentless group that they are. :angry::angry::angry:

  • Author
  • Member

Toups, I must concede that you just made a very good point: While I personally believe that the actions of the NBC executives (over the last eight years) are far more reprehensible than Frons' actions, perhaps there is less hatred at those NBC executives because they were not stupid enough to make foolish public comments.

Seriously, I think that Frons would be hated a lot less (even if the actions he took at ABC were exactly the same) were it not for the idiotic and offensive comments he has repeatedly made. I am baffled as to why Frons' bosses at ABC have never told him that he needs to shut up.

  • Member

Unlike NBC or CBS Presidents, we KNOW that Frons is very hands on with his soaps and it hurts it.

Why is it that Frons is giving fall previews to the magazines and SOAPnet? You don't see Annamarie Kostura or Bloom doing that do you? No.

Frons blatantly came out and said that he considers the vets from the 80's to be more supporting than lead. There's no way around it. Based on his treatments of the vets on ALL the ABC Soaps, it's very obvious that he feels that way about ALL of the veterans.

The reason why we complain about Frons and ABC is because it appears that ABC has no intention of doing things differently. The network is reaching record lows and instead of making changes, they freakin promote his ass. That's ridiculous.

The people at NBC and CBS stay away from the limelight and do the jobs they are paid to do. Frons on the other hand, at least in my opinion, must believe he's a writer and creative consultant to the soaps because that is how me makes himself look.

NBC and CBS aren't without their criticisms, but those criticisms are saved for the EP's and writers, not the daytime presidents....

  • Member

ABC Daytime Lineup in my area:

10:00 Rachel Ray

11:00 The View

12 pm Local News

12:30 Who Wants to be a Millionare

1:00 AMC

2:00 OLTL

3:00 GH

4:00 Oprah

CBS Daytime Lineup:

10:00 GL

11:00 The Price is Right

12 pm News

12:30 Y&R

1:30 B&B

2:00 ATWT

3:00 Insider

3:30 Insider

4:00 News

NBC Daytime Lineup:

10:00 Local programing

11:00 Martha

12 pm Old News Footage (no lie!)

1:00 DOOL

2:00 PASS

3:00 Ellen

4:00 News

My point, NBC has the worst daytime lineup overall and ABC isn't all that bad. If DOOL were flanked by stronger shows I don't doubt that it would be doing even better in the ratings.

  • Member
Unlike NBC or CBS Presidents, we KNOW that Frons is very hands on with his soaps and it hurts it.

Why is it that Frons is giving fall previews to the magazines and SOAPnet? You don't see Annamarie Kostura or Bloom doing that do you? No.

Frons blatantly came out and said that he considers the vets from the 80's to be more supporting than lead. There's no way around it. Based on his treatments of the vets on ALL the ABC Soaps, it's very obvious that he feels that way about ALL of the veterans.

The reason why we complain about Frons and ABC is because it appears that ABC has no intention of doing things differently. The network is reaching record lows and instead of making changes, they freakin promote his ass. That's ridiculous.

The people at NBC and CBS stay away from the limelight and do the jobs they are paid to do. Frons on the other hand, at least in my opinion, must believe he's a writer and creative consultant to the soaps because that is how me makes himself look.

NBC and CBS aren't without their criticisms, but those criticisms are saved for the EP's and writers, not the daytime presidents....

Yea! What he said! I watch DOOL sometimes, I loved the comments I watched on Soap Net by Hogan Sheffer. He was the right person to do the previews. Frons is a complete buffoon! This is why he gets no mercy, because quite frankly he doesn't deserve any. Frons is a clown!

  • Member

OT but...

As a matter of fact, AW (which received none of the special promotional treatment afforded to Passions, but rather was completely neglected) was cancelled--despite the fact that it had better ratings (in its last year) than Passions (had in its first year)--in favor of Passions because AW only attracted viewers 35 and older; from NBC's perspective, losing such "worthless" viewers was fine with them.

It was a business decision. plain and simple. sad but it's true. Passions makes more money for NBC than AW did.

Look at it this way...

If you have a product that is specifically geared toward 12-34 year olds, wouldn't you want it advertised on the soap that is being watched by most 12-34 year old viewers? more money money

PSNS debuted dead last in every category and after the first year skyrocketed in the demos where it has stayed for 6 years. That's the reason it's not been cancelled and hailed as a success.

It's the #1 soap in 12-17, 12-24, 18-24, and the #2 soap in 18-34 (season to date) And as long as it continues to beat ATWT and GL in the 18-49 it will stay on the air indefinitely... or until 2009, no matter what the HH rating.

  • Member
Toups, I must concede that you just made a very good point: While I personally believe that the actions of the NBC executives (over the last eight years) are far more reprehensible than Frons' actions, perhaps there is less hatred at those NBC executives because they were not stupid enough to make foolish public comments.

Oh please. It has nothing to do with public comments.

The way Anna Lee was treated by ABC in her last year of life

Firing Rachel Ames after 35+ years because she was old

The fact Julia Barr almost didn't get a contract

The endless pimping Maurice Benard

Firing Jill Larson

Hiring puppets as writers

On Days alone, there are 8 contract cast members over the age of 50. This is more than any of the other ABC soaps. There are also only 7 people under the age of 30 on contract. This is less than any ABC show.

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