Mitch

I don't know why they don't create a daytime soap aimed at a black audience, when they see how successful nightime "soaps" aimed at a black audience are. I know soaps are expensive to create but with the success in movies and prime time and shows aimed at that audience its seems to have a chance. I mean, most of Tyler Perry's stuff have soap elements..multigenerational family run by a strong willed, matriarch. The young screw up, the middle generation frets and dithers, and the "old folks" have to step in and kick ass. I mean, I do think of Madea as a later day, if more foul mouthed and unconventional, Nancy Hughes!

I love Downton but its just as bad as the daytime soaps...characters and incidents rush by and disappear...they are a big deal and then they arent...take the goofy...totally ripped from soaps..."character comes back from the dead " who not only had amnesia for awhile, but had a bandaged face and was heir to the fortune but might be a con artist..( I would think that I would know a friend or family member just by their voice but...) Or ..."We are about to loose Dowton...oh..someone dies offscreen so we don't!" I love the show maybe because it took all the conventions and excess of soaps and pasted that over Masterpiece Theater...

This is a case book of actors making something stupid work...and Bev is totally dedicated to it. I like the Victoria actress, and its weird to see Claire being nice. If only they had brought Toby Poser in as Vickie who had a rightful claim to Spaulding, and not that dumb Amanda is Brandon's kid storyline..Tony is smoking hot..(dumb, dumb Annabelle..you don't want him..Ill take him...). Speaking of...forgot how smokin' hot Zimmer was back then...I LOVED her and H.B. and on paper you would think that was nasty...but it worked. Loved Gates and its too bad Charita got sick and died and they didn't do the planned H.B. and Bert...would have been a hoot. But then, they should have bough fiesty Meta in for Bert's funeral and she and "Harlan" would have been great. Hated the Beth blind storyline(to be completely ripped off later with Chele and whatshisface) and hate Van being a wimpy sweet wife. This was the during the total change the show went under from Summer to Winter that year.

I actually think they should have brought her back during that "Phillip is dead" storyline where Beth and Rick were having an affair. I think that Evans and Oleary look more compatible then he and Chamberlin did and I actually think I would have kept them (Rick and Beth) together after Phillip returned, as they would have made a good core couple. I like Chamberlin but she never worked as Beth..but the writing after her return didn't help. One day she is a neurotic bitch, one day a victim, one day a heroince, one day a power mad woman running a goofy island kingdom (with Eddie) I thought the split personality thing would have helped to explain this but it was..just that she was Loreli... I think BC makes a good cold bitch but Beth is not a good cold bitch.

I can't believe that they have not rebooted a couple of them for primetime. I think (cause I loved them the most) that ATWT and GL would be perfect fodder for a reboot. ATWT is set in suburbia and has the middle class Hughes family with the rich Lowells...Imagine a young vixeny Lisa going after med student Bob, good girl Ellen getting preggers..slutty Aunt Edith getting on with Ellen's dad, etc. For a more urban take GL has an immigrant family trying to make their way in a midwestern mid sized city..you would have to tool around with that one .introduce the Spauldings early, etc. AMC would be perfect also to reboot in these political stressed times with the middle class Martins all having different political views while vixeny Erica slides her way in. I can't believe that producers, who use those old themes over and over again, wouldnt want to use a brand name.

I did admire that Marland stuck to gothic while the other shows were doing sci-fi... I think it worked on GL with Nola and Quint and Thornway Road..but the writers who followed had no clue how to deal with Marland's gothic and the characters involved suffered. Long gave it a try with the cabin storyline but it just wasnt her thing. I think they had no idea what to do with Nola after that and the crazy Quolas' wouldn't let the split up...(Quint was the kind of character who had short shelf life and should have been killed off to let Nola move on to other things..) But back to ATWT.. I think Marland's gothic worked for example the earlier Lisa storyline pre Dobsons..but his later stuff was just too BIG ..(yes, Duncan importing a castle brick by brick..and somehow they workers even created the "secret" tunnels that James slithered about in was just stupid and if wanst Marland that storyline would have been made fun of..(Still dont know why he didnt have Duncan move into an abandoned mansion that exisited in town...) A big agree that Lilith was the sun that shown on Marland's dreary little Oakdale at the time! The actress and the character just seemed to enjoy themselves which was a change from usual dour Oakdalian...(beside Lucinda...I think even Lisa was down beat at that time...)

The problem was MADD and the writers and their love of "formula." They had just hit gold with the Jeva vs. Annie and so they thought all "SUPER" couples should have a crazy bitch third wheel.. I would have liked to see Beth come back with more of an edge and less of a saint...(the last years of the original Beth..perfect, perfect angel..and Beth C' first run as a more meek Beth were not what I wanted to see...) Beth should have had some issues...(she went to therapy like two times after Bradley raped her...) but I would have liked a strong, conflicted woman. It would have been more interesting, but as it is, it made me hate Harley more. Unfortunately CW was leaving, so the show was desperate for a blond bitch to take her place, and they overestimated the popularity of Harley...(the BE fans and the Pharley fans were obnoxious and the forerunners to Manny and Rassie...) Harley always worked as she was a tough outsider but still a good person.. it would be interesting to see two strong imperfect women and a very imperfect man in a triangle with no villains, and the actors could more then handle it.

Well, also Wheeler tried to imitate "The Hills," (do you remember that show..no, didnt think so, but it was a "hit" with young demos and soaps are at their worst when coping fads...) and had the shaky cam..etc. I remember a scene of freaking Jeffery on the phone..was shot from in between two tree braches and a shaky cam...I thought..."Oh good, someone is stalking Jeffie and is going to kill him ," but no...it was how Wheelie decided to film it!

My favorite eras had to be Pam Long's first tenure up to Fall of 85? when it all went to [!@#$%^&*], and then again Long's second tenure with Sonni/Solita which ran into Roger's come back...(I think that was the essence of what a soap should be ..mystery, adventure but all grounded in a community and family...)and of course...Curlee and Company...that stuff was just so great! and Taggert and I know people disagree, but Joan/Alex. All of these good starts went to crap so I just can't ignore the conspiracy theories that MADD and others were being paid to put GL to its grave. I LOVE the bad disco opening...cracks me up looking at young, unbearded Josh perving on Nola...(and I am so old I remember watching that episode...) About Peapack...they used that location before after Reva's interuppted wedding to Kyle...which she hilariously ran out of the church..and wandered around the country side in her wedding dress (no one noticed this big blond dramatic woman wandering around in a wedding dress...) to be ran over by Josh's car. Peapack was beautiful in that. I do believe GL could have been saved IF the whole industry had changed their economics. They should have found studio space outside of New York and built the permanent sets where, unpopular as this might be...there would not be union regs on the production people...(if that exsisted..) and used the location sparingly. As upthread mentioned, someplace with an university and use that as SF U ..and the students as extras to crowd scenes..changed the way actors contracts are written, without the guarantee thing but a flat payout no matter how much the actor was used or not used. I could not believe that Wheeler changed the filming.. but kept producing storylines that included spies and exploding cars that just looked ridiculous...(my fave..was Jon and Brad Cole character in what was supposed to be the jungle but was clearly the Peapack woods...) That production style cried out to the return of people in a kitchen talking.... But I knew we were in trouble when they started off Peapack with a voice over of Ehlers..."I am Harley Davidson Cooper and this is MY town," ..uh, no its not!!

I wouldn't have minded the ghost stories on ATWT and GL if they would have been subtle. Besides Susan Piper being over the top and Brandon being alive..GL's ghosts were subtle in that it was Annabelle seeing a "flashback" to what happened as she had some psychic abilities. Piper and her henchman took the ball and made it seem like there was an active haunting going on to scare the them out...(yes, Susan Piper would have made a good Scooby Doo villain.) A gothic storyline with flavors of the supernatural are fine...just no jumping through paintings. I think Reed is a bit of an apologist for Marland. I can't believe that the network came to him and said..."Do a shrunken head storyline" as Lilith was already killing people in bear traps, and shipping corpses to the good people of Oakdale. I think this was all Marland and I do have to say, it was kind of a relief from the oppressive sincerity and gloom of Oakdale...plus I HATED Shannon and thought it was hilarious that she was shrunken head and they used a skraggily wig on top of an old apple to be her! The Tom Horton thing was even more tasteless as it was the actor's family who gave the okay to use it. In a tasteless part of the storyline..(Alice being chocked to death on donuts, and it was done for yucks!!!) Have Tom chase an evil Marlena and the ghosts protecting Alice could have been fun...if they actually saved her....but then Marlena just comes back five minutes after fleeing the house and goes on to kill Alice like nothing happened. I can take camp but it has to make sense in its own weird way and Days made not one iota of sense at this time. The most tasteless exploitative story line ever and one of the many reasons soaps are as good as dead.

I think CBS had a thing out for Long...and maybe vice a versa when she left the last time. I know she was upset with her original idea for "Ghost Reva" (that Pam for even thinking that up so others could run with it) coming back at Christmas to help Marah. CBS didn't want to do it (at that time wisely thinking it would mean Reva was really most sincerely dead, you know unlike later when it was..hey she is alive.but she was a ghost, but oh nevermind you think that's stupid wait until you see what we have up our sleaves for later!) I know Long worked for Rauch before but I don't see her doing that when she had a definite vision of what GL should be and I don't think Rauchie would have allowed her to do that...(imagine her bringing back Beth as a crazy sour horn dog ex wife??) Michael Laibson??? I really think GL's problems were more McTavish then him. He did allow her to bring back some old faves..I think his production values were good, I just think he needed a really strong writer. Maybe Laibson and Long could have saved the show.

I heard Conboy put the nail in the coffin of GL's budget. God, remember the Gay Rave he did and that Neon Fashion Show of Marah's!!!Soaps are so hapless when trying to be "hip"..just tell the damn story people! P & G were a bunch of idiots. Later on they should have made Toby Poser Vickie Spaulding instead of Amanda..(I think Poser was of mixed heritage right??) I loved Poser over Cullen's drab Amanda, and I could even think that Amanda redefined herself and was acting so flamboyantly to hide that drab girl who was locked in the attic, but I could not get over that this 25 year old had an affair with Ross in the past, which would have had to been when she was 15! A campy fun vixen Vickie bugging the crap out of Alex and strutting around town as a balls out powerful mixed race woman would have been fun. My fave Amanda/Poser line: Alan: "He tried to kill me!!!" Amanda walking around the lab not the least bit interested..."Who hasn't???"

Too bad...he couldnt have been that old right? Hated his GL but rip...is anyone consoling Marty West???

LOL..I loved creepy ass Laura! She came on as the usual Marland type as goody goody sweet and then..well... Her reveal came on the same day here in Chicago that Lauri Dann was going on her rampage..kind of weird. Hated the freakin' ghost mystery. GL's cabin mystery was better as at least it had Susan Piper's cartoon evil. The castle was dumb to begin with, who would have the money, or even want to, take down an historic castle piece by piece and move it to a midwestern burb??? Not only that, but the ghost somehow moved with it??? Sorry Marland that was dumb..it should have been Duncan moves into an old gothic house already in Oakdale..(and that Castle set was the ugliest set on earth.)

I remember liking the Cabin Mystery until it all went to hell and it had no lasting impact...(besides stopping Hillary's pulse.) It would have been fun to have had Nola and Quint move into the cabin instead of Tony and Annabelle...(they married those two off way too fast..) who should have had a triangle on their own with the brother as a separate storyline. Nola starts seeing thing but because she is Nola no one believes her...and she teams up with a reporter...(NOT Fletcher, I hated the actor and the character) to uncover..Quint is kind of jelly...(though the reporter and Nola are just friends...for now..)so he joins in despite not believing her. I would have had Quint quit being a caricature at that point and drop the ascot etc. The pay off would have to be something big like Alan was alive or Roger..NOT stupid like Brandon..dont know if Zaz was avail then but I would have had Chrissy come back then as Blake as a college student to worm her way into the Bauers but fall for Phillip instead of India ...yea we all love her but she was too old for the foursome at that time and should have been dealing with the adults. Etc. I hated the Hillary actress but would have just written her out and bring a new actress back later. Imagine Mr. PIPA camping it up against Nola!!!

The summer of 84 I think was GL at its best. It had great energy with newbies but they were all tied into the core which had story. SF was as posted upthread, a community and you could imagine it was a place with history. They had serious stories, campy stories, adventure, young people middle aged people and old people. Personally, I hated Cullen's pasty faced Amanda...(she was a perfect Marland character for him to write) and Rousell's Hope...(I never understood why people only wanted that actress back as Hope..I thought she was a dud also. Because of all this, it hit number 1. And then..it abruptly changed tone...with a focus totally on Reva and the Lewises and it just became sillier and colder. I would love for an insider to write the how and why that happened and why, when the ratings dropped out of No. 1..it didnt change? It was bad enough that the entire family of trailer trash moved into the Bauer house for a bit under Wheeler..(really, the Chief of Police while an idiot should have made enough to live outside the Boarding House...) but have Buzzard making on Hope???AGGGGHHHHHH. She'd have to be drunk!

Interesting how soaps would have even their "heroes," do some not very nice things...but the characters still got called on their behavior and did not get a free ride as now..they have a character do something and it is brushed off or excused because the person they did it to was worse then there are. I thought in the last years they should have made Ross and Blake move into the Bauer house with their kids and be the core couple...as Ross was already the Bob Hughes of SF. I am surprised that so many people did not like LK...I thought the actress who came before her was too campy and over the top, but I think LK had a nice warmer vibe which may not have made for a bitchy Blake but as a nice grown up woman and mother. Would it have been too controversial to break Ross and Blake up for good at the time of her and Ben Warren and bring Hope Bauer on to be in a triangle and eventually marry Ross and be matriarch. I reallly hate how the MADD soaps had couple break up all the time to just end up where they were before...(Jeva, Holden and Lilly, Ross and Blake, Carly and Jack..) it got very tiresome.

Scary thought...close to the end TPTB were considering making Jeffery a Bauer...kill two birds with one stone...("he's a Bauer so he is important and look, we are rebuilding the family") and that token heavy girl was going to be Rick's when he donated his sperm in college or some such crap.

Very true..they should have brought Meta back for Mo's funeral and kept her there. My enduring hate of all things Cooper started when they replaced the Reardon's (Harley and Frank were retread Nola and Tony) and then JFP killing Mo off to pay for Deas overacting and to push the Bauers out to try and make the Coopers the main family. Jed Allen would have made a hot Mike...I thought he was all kinds of sexy for an older guy...him with Bev or another recast...(much as I love her..not Marj) would have been great....especially with Hope there and then Alex using her to get her revenge on Alan...(ala when she used Reva to do it..) though Alex of course would not consider it "using" Hope but taking advantage of Alan's weakness..but Mike would see it differently..all kinds of soap fun..minus Deas spitting and spinning windmill arms!

The Mike Bauer actor screwed up the chance to be paired with McKinsey..but I never understood with Ed gone, they didn't recast Mike and have him and Alex fight/love each other, with Alan constantly scheming against him. The perfect opp would have been McTrash's stupid..."Alan destroys 5th Street" to get revenge on that midget Buzz. Alex as stuck in the middle and AM could have brought is Grandfather back to act as lawyer for the residents...I would then drop that plot quickly.....(Mike gets an stop and desist order against Alan) and then have Alex and Mike fight over Mike' s plan to finally have Alan back in the pokey...Alex would steal the evidence from Mike and destroy it to protect Alan...But eventually Alan would once again turn on Alex for and get her kicked out of the company and get all her assests, etc. At that point Mike starts to see the vunerable side of Alex..yada yada, they get together but Alex is not done with Alan and of course gets her revenge on him, in an entirely unethical way which cause a wedge with Mike..etc. Bringing Hope back would have made it even better...but we get Alan vs. Buzzard..for years.

Agreed...everyone like to take a crap on E & B/Rauch but I thought the show in 97 was very good..not the same mind you, but in the new MADD era it could have been much worse. I thought it was entertaining and Reva while front and center always, wasnt on overload and everyone had things to do, even Aunt Meta..I liked how she was a confidant of Blake sorry, I never thought "Bloss" ( UGH) should have been an unbreakable couple. Now as soon as we got the Clone, The Mob and San Crud forget about it...but that seemed mandated from above and not just E & B.

Hated this!!! God I hated screechy Marj Alex...could she be any less likeable...and that is when she is up against Tangie!!! Imagine Bev Alex saying the same thing...Tangie would be worried she would have her throat cut in the night!

True, and it was nice, after the crappy way Nancy and Chris and the Hughes had been treated for 4 years to see that. Anyone who watched during the Dobson's and Bunim years would never think they would make them the centerpiece of the 30th anniversary..(though I have qualms that they were having their 50th anniversary when it was obvious that Bob was older then 50...) Though you can hear Wagner's high pitched "singing" on the Christmas shows also...oh my God, I am saying something bad about Nancy Hughes, I am going to Hell!!

Except..God love her...Helen Wagner should never have been allowed to sing...Oy!!! Speaking of Dolan said that BH and SH had an impression of Wagner that would crack her up..I would have loved to have seen that!

God I hate when they have character's sing..even if they sound good. I remember Jack bursting out with a little song and dance number in the police station and it was just so..."Hey LOOK at me...I'm not JUST a soap actor!" It would have been fine if the other cops would have teased him.."Hey twinkle toes do you take requests?" But then nothing was scarier then Lisa crawling up on that piano!!!