Mitch

They look great, even O'leary looks kind of normal there. Regrading Sniveling Lily..there are just some characters you hate, and there are some characters you love to hate, and there are some characters that you still have a sentimental attachment too through that hate. Lily was one of those especially when they let people dis her finally, (I actually liked it when Rose didn't like her.) When they recast her it was just pure boredom hate. No one could be as annoying as MB as Lily. I don't understand the diss on MH's looks. Sure he is not soap opera..he looks like a normal cute guy who could keep you warm all through the winter. I was working out at the gym and they had GH on one of the TV"S and I just thought..."There is no one who looks "Real" on that show anymore...and all the middle aged people..as there are no old people anymore...they all had horrible plastic surgery...that guy with the big nostrils...looked almost as terrifying as poor Jackie Zeman! Regrading Lemay and Marland...Marland gave an interview about his time working on AW and the execs proposed a murder mystery. Lemay in his queeny snobby outrage got up and said..."WE don't do murder mysteries...." and walked off to the elevator making his staff follow. Marland said he wanted to run back and say..."I DO murder mysteries...I DO!"

I heard that also, but what I meant was..why did TPTB keep him around??? He was "old," not particularly attractive (disclaimer I thought his Tom Hughes was hot..) and his character was annoying as hell, and he was a big pout (he told a story about the director telling him to "tone it down," and he just really read the lines after that...) PS was "My" Ed but he was so cold...Hulswit was the Ed when I was a kid and "my Moms" Ed and he was much closer to Charita Bauer interpretation of Bert...warm, a bit chubby, normal, a calmness where you would see why people would look up to them but a back bone when it was needed. He also looked more like he could have been O'leary's dad...(at his best O'leary had the same thing that Charita and Hulwist brought to their roles, but he insisted on his "comedy" and his mugging, when Rick should have taken over from Bert as being the go to Bauer.) Van Fleet always came off as too weak. Also, he came on during a HUGE change (when I think the show hit bottom...until Peapack came..) with Charitas's death, the decimation of the Bauers..(Hillary killed off, Mike written off..) the obscuration of the Reardons, the rise of the Lewis as the 'core" family and Reva ate the show alive. He might have worked at another time but GL just became a totally different show overnight and it did not work at all. It was just typical Rauch and E & B bullshitting that they were going to focus on the core with all the complaints. They were boasting they were going to show flashbacks of him and Bert which would impact the story but never did. They actually had a good story built in there with him...Ed was the doctor for Jesses' Mom and his dad blamed Ed for killing her (hence getting Mo's heart to Jesse...) It was a good "GL" story with the dad coming between Chele and Jesse and the economic disparity. But it wasnt "cartoony" enough for them so they got bored. I always wanted Nola to get involved with Jesse's dad as she buttinskied her way into trying to help Chele, and have her caught in between Ed (in a sisterly way) and the dad too, and if they gave Jess a bad girl social climbing sister to go after Bill Lewis, so there would be Jesse/Chele/Bill/Bad Girl thing going. With the adults having problems, the kids having problems, and it all tied together, with Aunt Meta drinking a bourbon and handing out sassy advice, it would have been good. The most frustrating part of Rauch and E & B tenure was the "What coulda.shoulda been" they demonstrated they had some good ideas and could actually write some interesting stuff. And then it would go back to being a shallow cartoon.

I hated her by the end but by that time she was so tied to Buzz that I was ready to get rid of her. I did think she was funny when she was mixing it up with the rest of SF....(Frank of all characters had one of my favorite lines..."Nadine's idea of a family meal was letting us stay up late to watch Johnny Carson and eat Fried Chicken out of the bucket!") I think they didn't know what to do with her with Nola on the scene..but the two of them would be wacky Lucy and Ethel fun or competing with each other for a man (in a comedic triangle...) I don't like the violent way she was killed..that was deserved for Buzzard..(God I would have loved to have Brent say. ..."Have some diner food Buzzard..as he threw his body in a dumpster.) Speaking of which I know Deas was a FOJ but how in God's name did he hang on all those years after she was gone? Pics of MADD in a Chinese brothel? Through McLaiby to Rauchie on down to Peapack, he clung on and was given material.

I didnt think about Long and Lucinda! While Lucinda was polar opposite of Bev/Alex( one was quiet, but could cut you to pieces with a stare..the other was flamboyant and could cut you to pieces with her zingers) they both were powerful, conflicted women who were not the cartoon soap opera rich bitch they turned MarjAlex into.

I disagree, I think Long was a terrible fit for both SB and OLTL as neither one of them were "family" shows per se.. the first two years of her GL term were great as the Bauers were the center with the other families having their turn..it wasn,t until TPTB interfered that it came apart...and her second tenure on GL she got to straighten some of that out. I think she would have respected the Hughes and would have been really good with Nancy (I thought her writing of Bert was great..matriarch of SF but human and fallible too.) I just would fear she would bring Zimmer ...(imagine Zimmer as a Diana McColl recast....her and Fulton together on screen....either great or diva disaster....) Co head writing with Curlee would have been great...( I always loved Curlees quote that a poster here uses but she also ammended for soaps in general..."You can scare the hell out of the viewer, throw anything you want at them, as long as they can run out of that dark backyard, run up the porch steps and bang through the screen door and Nancy Hughes is in the kitchen baking cookies."

Some of his stuff was good and natural...like Nancy asking where the serving spoon was and I liked that people actually used their kitchens and made dinner (in today's soaps its as if no one does anything "normal") and worried about who was going to watch their kids...(in between kidnappings and murder trials..) but when it came down to people having a conversation that moved plot along it was stiff and unnatural and contrary to what someone posted above...everyone sounded the same...like they just stepped out of a touchy feeling group therapy session ("honesty..feelings) GL at the time ..while their plots were sloppier, made their characters sound like real people talking..and sometimes, even the "good" people didn't like other "good" people and made bitchy gossip about them...(Marland's characters were too earnest to do that...)

He split them apart for the same reason I feel he split John and Lucinda up..they were too sarcastic, bantering and fun to be in his wheelhouse. Everyone had to be morose, dour and earnest. I mean, he split up John and Lucinda for John and Emma????? Kirk became Marland' typical bland "hero" who was ever so sorry he was good in business and placed that above...."honesty." I HATED Ellie just because the writers had to work overtime to tell us how "funny" she was, but they failed to ever show us she actually was?? Poor Iva, marrying that Jason guy, leave it to Iva to finally find a guy to marry her and he was a flaming queen!

Iva started out strong, kind of like how Marland wrote the original Maureen with Dolan, smart, tough, oldest daughter from a big family who had some trouble in the "big city" (obviously Iva had more trouble then Mo did, who just GASP...lived with a man!) She was able to match Lucinda...etc. Then as years went by she became a depressed, depressing dormat...who was just obsessed with Lily. When she came back to intro Rose as Lily's twin I thought it was so weird that they never had any other scenes...and Lily never had scenes or reallly mentioned Iva ever.

Good idea about Block as Craig...I was never interested in the Montgomery family besides Margo, and after Dolan was cast I couldn't care less about her. Rick would have been a good antagonist within the Hughes family, much as Babs was, and really what Sabrina should have been. Bob, the patriarch of Oakdale, ironically was in Rick's eyes a "failed father" etc. Bryce was a better actor but sometimes that does not count..Craig, I felt was always a wimpy character..when he was evil it was all about Betsy, when he was good it was all about Sierra (God I hated them) Iva (really Craig...dull, plain Iva???) and I lost count of who else he was quivering his puckered lips over and having tears well in his eyes. That is why Block never worked as Craig..he was so dismissive of women..I felt a good storyline was for him to be gay or bi..and Craig was nothing if not obsessed with the latest woman in his life. But I think I am the wrong audience..maybe women love the weak sensitive bad boy?

I thought Block was hot...(I remember the scene where he and Carly were sitting in a car and she had to duck down when a car drove by and he said, "Well, Carly, while your down there..." Marland was in heaven, clutching his pearls on that one! I never like Bryce that well. I know he is a better actor but thought his Craig was always kind of a wuss. He was a wimp when he was evil and married to Betsy and he REALLY was a wuss when Marland took over (even his "romance" with Lucinda was about her being the dominant person...) So in that respect I didn't think Block was right for the role...cause deep down, good or bad, Craig was always a wimp who turned his life around for the woman in his life. So yes, I could see him more as a Rick Ryan or my favorite would have been Marland's original idea, to have what became Scott Eldridge to be Lisa's son by Michael Shea..they should have saved the dumb Sabrina plot for having John and Rick Ryan switch babies to help a not really dead Shea get revenge on Lisa.

LOL..I would have loved that...she, Lisa, and Chelsea Reardon all getting that treatment (as soon as I would see Lisa crawling up on that damn piano I prayed for James to set off a bomb in the Mona Lisa... God I HATED Lyla's signing. and when they actually had the nerve to act like her lite pop crap song was a "hit" and the kids on the show were actually liking it...UGGGH. But I think Lyla was useless after her original storyline of dating Bob and secretly having John's baby.

I seriously think that Frankie D was paying THEM to be on the show. He was not talented, he was no longer the hottie, his character was boring, etc. Deas, I think his "reputation" as an "actor" in the goofy soap industry kept him around. I always thought Clarissa should be fat and plain and a book worm and resentful of her sex pot Mom and more friends with Grandma Holly. About Mrs. Lemay, you were expecting E & B and then later Kreizman to remember she was preggers? Hell, Kriezman and Wheeler sent her back in the same time machine that Amanda Spauldiing took to de age her to be a teenager...(presumably so BE could still be the "young" romantic heroine.)

This was the first time I watched that scene of Babs jumping out the window...there was so much wrong with it that the jump was actually the logical conclusion of the scene. That came off as if it was a comical dream Babs had of what would happen or a skit on how stupid soaps can be. First of all, you can tell that the 80s and even 90s were long gone. Marland would write, and they would have a budget for...having tons of characters in that courtroom...(Bob, Kim and Lisa looking concerned, etc, Margo rolling her eyes...) and why is everyone orangeish? Second, a judge would never allow that in his courtroom, third, Barbara may have been a bitch somtimes..and I can buy her jumping into pschosis...but a dumb bitch/psycho? Babs was anything but dumb, and that whole speech was something an idiot would do. Then the overacting from Zenk and the ultimately..why did she jump out the window..was she Wonder Woman all of a sudden and would not be hurt by the glass and can run super fast away...instead of a middle aged woman who was never an athlete. Fat Ass Hogie is to blame but there is a lot of blame to go around, from MADD to Gautman to the directors, to the other writers to even the actors. No one said, "This [!@#$%^&*] is stupid and makes no sense!" !!!

But there it is, why was Blake (and Ross) off contract but they would keep Frank and Buzz? Switch that off and have your longest running vet and his wife head up a new young family. I think Holly, at this point worked best on recurring, coming in and out of stories as needed. Just say she is a globe hopping journalist writing a book (and maybe looking for Roger) and she comes into the story when needed. Don't remind me of Gus. Why they didn't fix that paternity problem I will never know..that manscara wearing twit was in no way a Spaulding...I loved when he died everyone was like..."Oh...hey what's for lunch???" The mental unraveling of Phillip and his "death" could have been a great story (and gotten GA an emmy) if it wasnt written so crappy. It touched everyone on the canvas and could have realigned and fixed a lot of things..(i.e during the trial Gus "real" paternity came out, the "real" reason Alex was involved in the drug ring..brought Beth back to being herself,..etc.) and they revealed he was alive in the summer...with GA back in the role.

I will never figure out who Deas was balling to keep that job! God (and this is sick stuff I know) I would love to have had Buzz die in that car crash and give him a chance to do his usual over acting in his death scenes at the hospital...sputtering, arms waving, spitting, snot flying out of his nose..and have Rick or Ed say...."The patient would pull through if he would just stay still, but he wont..." and then in the middle of a massive arms flaying like windmills attack, he bites it, with his big maw wide open so he can kick it like he lived it. Actually I would have had Buzz get killed by Brent instead of Nadine...how I would love Brent to say that infamous line to him instead..."How bout some diner food Buzz??" as he throws his body in the dumpster... But yea, Rauchie and MADD got rid of her because of her sticking up for Zaz, but also, she was a bit of a diva herself, complaining if she didn't have a storyline...."There is only so much you can do in the background of the Bauer BBQ blowing up balloons." so I guess Rauch already had his hands full with Zimmer.

Damn, that Hutch or whatever his name is, was such a FLAMER!! Remember when we just automatically assumed everyone was straight..despite every indication otherwise..oh the innocent 80s and 90s! Tess comes off as his kind of annoying best gal friend then his girlfriend.

So it wasn't really Holly's fault. It was Jenna's for being a ho bag who lies. And has terrible taste in men. Damn, over hearing paternity, that happened every other week on Marland's ATWT!

Aggh did you need to remind me of Buzz and his snot! Justin Deas was a thorn in my GL watching time.(I swear he was on just to chase me away) up until the very end when they threw him into Van and Billy's wedding!!! Disagree on the only "intact" family being the Coopers. They had the Marlers there the whole time and Ross and Blake were the only couple I can remember having three kids produced in the same relationship (non withstanding the oddity of thinking that one of the boys was Rick's and that Christina was born and her parents were seperated.) With the addition of Dinah and bringing in Roger's son (it wouldnt have been Sebastian in my world but...) you have a family unit with a matriach and patriarch with teenagers and all their angst, with adult trouble makers involved and the addition of appearences of sarcastic Grandma Holly. If I were head writer I would have had Rick move into the lighthouse after he divorces Mel (they never worked, and with no Bauers around Rick worked best as a supporting actor like Frank) and Ross and Blake move into the Bauer house (the set was there, Blake basically grew up a Bauer tho the writers ignored it) and center the show around them as the core family. I thought LK would find her stride as a saucy sexy earth mother, and of course Ross had authentic ties to EVERYONE on the canvas, as opposed to Buzz being shoved into relationships as in being Alan's antagonist etc. It would be nice to see a committed married couple who still liked to hit the sheets. The recurring joke would be the Marlers kids being embarrassed by their parents "affectionate" relationship. I don't remember, how was Holly responsible for Jenna's death? I didn't care as each time I saw her Buzzard was in tow and I cant forget those months we had of her over a vat of skin cream that was an actual freakin' storyline! I liked Edmund and thought DAM was damn sexy, but never could accept a murderous psycho as a villain. His intro on the show was trying to kill a baby for God's sake! However, I would have made him Jonathon's father.. I don't know how I would do it as how could Reva forget that..though I could see her tieing one on and having it off with Eddie and forgetting it...I mean, who wouldnt want to get it with Eddie being married to Richard the Dull?I just did not see he and Cassie together especially since they made him so bland. I think LW works best as a brittle shrew so I woulda had Cassie gone "bad" and embarked on a sick sexual relationship with Eddie..do not tell me the girl did not pull tricks when she got off that stripper pole...she was straight out trailer trash and that version I could have liked. I actually liked Beth and Coop, he was so boring but he perked up and their relationship was kind of sexy. It was nice to see a couple just having sex who liked each other but were not some great Twu Wuv...and really, who would not hit Beth she was looking great!

Yea, I never thought Hurst's work was THAT great. She WAS better then what came before but yes, anything would be better. And she was proud of saying that the frreakin' Coopers were her favorite family, as they were like a warm blanket to her? Really, loud spitting Buzz, boring Frank, strident Harley and dimbulb Marina??? REALLY???

LOL..sadly I can't remember where my keys are but I remember that commercial and that face! Bette and Joan would stop their "Feud" to applaud Fulton's entrance..."Lisa is BACK and in the thick of things!"complete with hat, fur, and the corpse of her millionaire husband. I wonder if her dislike of the Whit actor had anything to do with her, "Ewww something smells in here..oh its Whit...will they ever get the stain out of that rug.." look?

Agreed, the show was turning around, and believe it or not, would have continued if Rauch had stayed and kept Taggert on...(though they fought constantly I heard Taggert could actually win with him...) When MADD took over producing for a couple weeks was when we lost Joan Collins and then she brought Conboy on of all people (though she was considering Wheeler) and he insisted on Weston. Conboy totally screwed the budget over at that time. It would have been interesting to see Wheeler working with a stronger head writer like Taggert and with a semi normal budget. Alex wasnt actually the stalker all the time. Reva did have a real stalker who was caught but Alex continued it on to distract Reva (you know that hard hitting journalist) and Holly from investigating the Spauldings..which would have been a good reason if it wasn't for it being to cover up dumb Gus's even dumber paternity...(Taggert's version had Jonathon be the stalker, Gus a Santos and for Alan Michael to come back to help Alex fight Alan and Phillip.)

I loved Lilith..though it didn't jibe with the rest of Marland's ATWT which was so dully earnest all the time. She would have been a better fit on GL which has always...(at least since Marlands' turn) embraced camp better. I would love to see Lilith threaten Reva.."I would stuff you into one of my coffins dear but since your middle aged spread as taken over in earnest, I couldn't find one big enough!" I loved her catching people in bear traps and sending people home in coffins..and yes, the only time I loved Shannon was when she was that dumb shruken head..(and who could forget dumb Duncan not even checking to see if its real just running out of the tent to have..yes poison darts shot at him!) The Jessica actress had no sexual chemistry with anyone but I just dont think she would have chosen Duncan or he her.

They showed her on the bottle again but they didn't really tie it together..as she didn't seem drunk when she was stalking people. It was just so nice to see a woman in something other then a boring pastel dress that EVERY freaking woman in Rachville wore!I wish Holly would have kept the look and when people would raise eyebrows she would be "Hey I like it!"

I thought I was the only one who liked that storyline! Holly looked smoking hot in her leather stalker outfit..it was fun to see her be smart and slick (okay, if bad) and more fun to see people like Cassie, Van and Reva have to see they really aint perfect. I think that actually making a major character do this kind of thing was new, and actually Days ripped it off for the Salem Stalker and Marlena. I think they did a pretty good job of setting it up and having Holly guilty about her kid, drinking a lot, etc..just typical E & B and Rauch that they went for the most ridiculous ending (ALL the characters kids had to be kidnapped..Holly was crazy to want to spend time with those brats) and skipped over some of the good parts...(they should have had Holly passing out and not remembering doing this stuff) and sloppy on other things (the infamous front door opening OUT with Dinah's miscarrage..) And yes, Reva as the freaking hero..(should have been Ed on that bridge with her...) They also quickly skipped Holly being in therapy...and her Annie friendship...plus Holly was just back to normal after this and disappeared...(they should have had her come sane, but a tad bit bitchier and in control of her life...) It would have been fun to see her bring her pal Annie back to live with her..."( "Oh Reva you dont like it, go tell someone else, I am not impressed with Queen Katherine's opinion") and see her and Alan connect...(I dislked Raines but oddly enough he and Garret had some great chemistry..) That is when Roger's death should have been handled and Holly inheriting all his money and Spaulding stock.

Agreed... I couldn't stand Wheeler's vision but I do think she actually cared, and cared a lot. I don't think she was particularly gifted or creative, and I think that no one could have saved the show in the state it was in, even if Marland came back from the grave, teamed up with Pam Long and Nancy Curlee and Caso was the producer. The first few months of Wheeler were pretty "good" but you could tell MADD and the network were interfering and by the time MADD left the budget was even worse. Gautman, could have given three shits.