Soaplovers

In regards to the whole Delta Burke and Loni Anderson 'sexism' opinion, I was around when all of that went down. People were team Loni at the time, she and Burt mud slinging ended up costing both of them their sitcoms and their careers. So I think both got grief back in the day for the divorce, but nice try re-writing history. Delta, on the other hand, was constantly absent and/or late.. and while I do think mental health should be looked at... when it affects not only your job, but other people's jobs.. decisions have to be made.

To me, I think the Kat vs Eva feud is going back to where it should have stayed in the front place.... Ted (their father) with Nicole and Anita finally giving her two cents on occasion when it comes to both of the girls. Unpopular opinion, but TT had a much better written character and story arc on ATWT as Jessica Griffin than she's had as Anita Dupree on this show thus far. With that said, she and Tisha have strong on screen chemistry as Anita and SPS.. and it's nice that she can sort of be cordial to Eva recognizing perhaps a little of herself in Eva (since we all know Anita did not come from money and wasn't the nicest of people back in her youth). Dare I say it.. but I like that the show has a strong set of supporting/B characters that I kind of enjoy better than the Duprees. The Have Not duo of Jan/Mona have a good friendship chemistry... and @Taoboi you might get your wish to see the Have not duo seeing SPS being exposed since Jan did get an invite to Winterfest and Mona is going to be there as well. And Jan said that without proof, she isn't going to condemn SPS so an exposure of some sort would need to happen in order to get Jan to back off yet again from resuming her friendship with SPS. The Have Not going ons are one of my favorite of the C stories. Laura has been a wonderful addition as a supporting/recurring character and given the type of focus/layers that I wish the show would give Chelsea. The PTSD she feels after her trauma is realistic considering the accident and then her heart issues at the hospital.. and her feeling uneasy around SPS (with good reason) while having a warm relationship with Mona, Nicole, & Anita.. and even was nice to Eva. Dare I say it, but I'd rather Samantha be written off and more focus given to Laura since I think there is story there with her character and her occasional mentions of her boyfriend, etc.

John Ritter did serious work in a lot of tv movies in the 90s... I think he even played a killer and he was creepy. Shame people didn't pay attention to tv movies back in the day because back in the 80s and 90s, they were an outlet for comedic actors/actresses to play more serious and darker roles (i.e. Meredith Baxter, Joanna Kerns, Judith Light, Kirstie Alley, etc). Streaming has caused a huge uptake in quantity, but the quality has kind of diminished in some ways. It's why a lot of older shows from the 2000s and earlier seem to do well in streaming despite a loud minority proclaiming how out of touch those classic shows are. Bringing it back to a soap opera focus... William Devane had trouble finding a successful series after Knots Landing ended. Phenom - An odd coupling pairing with Judith Light where the two had a good comedic chemistry.. but didn't survive past one season. The Monroes - Prime soap where he and Susan Sullivan played well opposite one another... but bad time slot and a slow start killed the show. Turks - A short of Blue Bloods esque show about a family of cops in Chicago that came out in the late 90s The Michard Richards Show - I understand work is work, but the Seinfeld curse was still a thing in 2000 LOL Crumbs - He and Jane Curtin were feuding exes with Fred Savage as their gay son... Such an odd pairing of performers LOL The Grinder - I believe he played the father of Rob Lowe and Fred Savage.. lasted just a season. His best success post Knots Landing was a strong recurring role in 24 and also some good tv movies.

It probably would have been paired with Touched by An Angel (the female version of Highway to Heaven).

Linda Lavin after the success of Alice had some decent tv movies in the 80s/90s... but her choice in tv series post Alice weren't exactly good choices. Room For Two (a mother/daughter comedy with a than unknown Patricia Heaton) in the early 90s. Bad timeslot did the show in, but it was kind of a cute show. Conrad Bloom in the late 90s where she was an interfering mother from hell. Sean Saves the World in the early 2010s where she was the best part of that show... but lousy writing did it in. 9JKL - I don't remember this 1 season wonder B- Positive - She was only in the 2nd season... but I don't remember it. Mid Century Modern - I actually thought she was the weak part on this.. and she passed away during production so who knows it it would be have been successful.

So the story arc with Laura is what the show should have done with Chelsea after her kidnapping arc.

The thing about CB's Alan was that he could be just at home in an upper crust establishment, yet also had a warm down to earth aura about him. He seemed like he could be someone you would run into if you ventured into a more high end department store and/or neighborhood. Ron Raines was too much of a cartoon and too Broadway to play Alan properly.

The one thread I noticed about Long and her stints was that she was all about the forbidden love aspect from a class perspective. Alan and Vanessa came from the same world so it made sense that the two would start to officially date in 1983 after his marriage to Hope finally exploded because she was from his world. Even though Billy came from a family with money, it was a less refined/classy world that Billy had come from so naturally Vanessa was drawn to him because he offered something different and did play into her natural instinct to rebel against the world that she was raised in. CB leaving in the spring of 1984 cut the triangle short, and going against popular opinion... I think Vanessa becoming a parent, suffering from post-partum, and feeling stifled by this new environment did drive her to become addicted to pills. When Long had come back, she didn't seem keen on Ross/Vanessa as a couple hence her deciding to go to Alan due to need someone more dependable/powerful that was familiar to her. However, Alan became drawn to Reva because she was different and exciting for him and he did have a history of going for women that were different from the women in his world so I could see why he and Vanessa didn't last yet again (also, Maeve was quitting so they had to 86 that story). I think Pilon having to take over suddenly and during the writer strike cut short whatever story Long had planned for Alan/Reva since she seemed really committed them as a couple before the strike and before CB had to vacate his role. @DeeVee I remember that Chelsea/Phillip were still a couple until at least May or June 1988 (knee deep in the writer strike). It seemed the scab writers were trying to make things up as they went along with the show kind of teasing Reva/Johnny during the strike and also Johnny/Blake as well post Roxie leaving.. before putting Phillip with Blake and Chelsea with Johnny. Kassie Wesley Depriava did say that during the writer strike, without warning.. Blake suddenly had her love interest and her story in a blink of an eye. To this day, I still love the interview Long did as a part of a post-1988 writer strike follow up article where she freaked out at the show deciding to use her newest creation Blake without any outline or plan... and then trying to figure out how to carry forward with the character once the strike was over. I also forgot all about Johnny's cancer story and the 40s style melodrama where naturally funny Roxie was forced into the grieving girlfriend role that fit a 40s style movie instead of an 80s style soap opera. I don't recall if Roxie having a nervous breakdown post Johnny going into remission happened before the writer strike, or during the writer strike.

Count me in on not wanting Bill/Dani to be end game. It takes two to tango, and I think that Dani wasn't this wounded bird in that marriage especially when it has been implied that she's been mentally unbalanced for sometime now (and I think that could be part of the reason Naomi is just damn angry all the time). Dani will break Andre's heart in the same way that Bill broke her heart.

Salt Lake City: I believe that two things can be true at the same time, and this show really drives that point home. Jared is gross, but Britani is mentally unwell. And it isn't due to a man gaslighting her, it's due to the fact that she's emotionally stunted and immature. Todd talks down to everyone and probably is cheating, but Bronwyn is an immature individual still emotionally 17 years old with a real mean streak. She has lousy taste in clothes, lousy taste in men, and just poor judgement in general. Lisa spreads rumors, but correct me if I'm wrong.. but isn't that a requirement to be a housewife? I think Lisa is domineering and John is too passive... we've seen this dynamic between them since season 1. Mary has great insight sometimes, but the woman is doing something majorly shady with that church of hers. Heather, I believe, is the true puppet master of all the going-ons since at least season 3 (but her hatred of Lisa has been apparent since season 1). Whitney is a follower and a pot stirrer.. and really has no actual presence on the show. Most of her memorable content is due to Lisa and Mary (both were strong personalities). Bravo Con The comment from Phaedra not knowing who Emily is was priceless especially after she boasted that she's been on the OC for 7 seasons. Andy is so dense that he doesn't understand that Emily is taking up space that could be better utilized by someone that actually contributes and is interesting. She and Gina were only hired because they were younger with small kids... and we've been stuck with them ever since. Quotas always hurt a final product and the OC is a perfect example of that.

Kat vs Eva is so complex because this feud goes beyond the typical 'good sister/bad sister' trope employed on soaps. And the gist of the feud goes back to their father with Kat so insecure over not being the only daughter that she's going to lengths even Eva wouldn't go to in order to remove her sister. Kat is just like her aunt Dani in this regards (i.e. going too far even if in the right).

In regards to Long's 2nd stint, it appears as though she officially came back as head-writer between the 4th of July/Bauer Barbeque episodes 1987 and mid August 1987.. and then between April and September 1988 were episodes written by the scabs. I almost count her having 3 stints head-writing Guiding Light since the writer strike lasted five months. In her 2nd stint, she seemed focused on the following: - Sonni returning from the dead thus keeping Reva/Josh apart yet again so she naturally turns to Alan and causes the ending of the Vanessa/Alan relationship. I wonder if Maeve's decision to leave affected some of this because she was gone by January 1988, a few months after Long's return so she had to come up with a way to get Vanessa to take off (and it was to be there for Billy during a low point if I recall). - Phillip/Chelsea were pretty heavily focused on during this 2nd stint period and I liked their rapport. - A lesser focused story in the background was the Lillian/Hawk/Sarah situation - Formulating her next version of the 4 Muskateers with Cam/Dinah/Harley/Alan Michael... but in order to include a more rough around the edges Harley.. Dinah was softened quite a bit (though I did see a cat fight between Harley/Dinah where Dinah belted Harley so I think Turco could have played an edgier Dinah). - There also seemed to be a Spaulding takeover going on with Phillip trying to oust Alan.. and it affected his relationship with Chelsea. Post-writer strike, I noticed that the Phillip/Harley arc kicked into gear with him pretending to be 'my fair lady' with Harley.. but trying to set it up to look as though they were sleeping together. That arc plus the aftermath of Maeve's death were what Long started when she came back after the strike. I don't know how the Alan/Reva situation would have gone had CB remained in the role and if the writer strike hadn't happened.

If I were Eva, the response back to Kat's uncalled for comment was 'Feeling is mutual, I wish your mom had decided to quit while she was ahead with Martin'

He definitely had it going on back in the day

I know Anita mentioned that she no longer was investing in the trust, while Leslie had stated that the interest was multiplying at a decent rate... but I do have a feeling she'll wipe through the trust in a short amount of time with the amount of spending she's doing. The show always throws in tiny nuggets of foreshadowing and having Anita's remark and Eva warning her mother not to overdo the spending tells me that Leslie will be blowing through that money eventually.

There are episodes with Jenny (Mary Ellen Stuart) that she was in pre-writers strike.. and I know that she lasts until at least August 1988. It's a shame that the show didn't try pairing her with Rusty since the two had more chemistry than she had with Ross and that he had with Rose.

If I recall, the show did keep Frannie as friendly with both Betsy/Sierra up to when JM departed the canvas. Part of the issue was that the actresses playing Frannie, Betsy, and Sierra all departed the canvas around the same time (circa 1987/1988) and only Frannie came back in a consistent manner in late 1989 while Betsy barely came back except for occasional visits and Sierra came and went up to the early 90s. I did like when Julianne Moore first came on as Frannie in spring 1985, that the show did maintain the Kirk/Jay/Marcy/Frannie friendship until everyone around Frannie left one by one (first Marcy, then Kirk, and finally Jay). I also remember Jay and Heather being friends in a scene or two in late 1985 during the holiday episodes. It's a shame that the show seemed insistent on one female POC being a lead because I could have seen both Heather and Jessica Griffin co-existing on the canvas at the same time since both characters had different personalities, functions, and friendship groups. Jessica seemed to fit in with Tom/Margo while Heather was more in Frannie/Betsy/Sierra's orbit... and certainly another male love interest could have been introduced.

I'm noticing that since Tracy T's arrival as co-head writer that there seems to be a shifting in the dynamics of the Eva/Kat story. It looks as though the show is slowly making Eva less of the antagonist in some instances while making Kat more of an antagonist in some instances. It looks as though the main origin of their feud has also gone back to where it belongs... Ted, their father with Tomas being somewhat de-emphasized. I also wonder if Iz (Jacob's brother) and Eva will be set up as an end game couple with Kat as spoiler with Tomas being further de-emphasized. I wonder if this whole SPS arc with Winterfest will end up resembling the movie/book Carrie... since Anita/Nicole seem ok with letting SPS step in and I wonder if there will be some sort of payback/humiliation at Winterfest. It was nice to see that Mona/Jan are still cool with one another.. and I have that the Have Not's will continue to have their mini story in the background with Mona rightly not budging on SPS due to Laura while Jan is caught in the middle because semi understands SPS (due to probably being the same way with a man that SPS was at one time) and also understanding Mona's perspective. With Laura coming back on, plus Mona's stance... I do hope that there will be some movement on revealing what SPS did to Laura and that it won't be another fake-out like what had happened a few months ago.

It probably looks like Erin, Jessel, and Sai survived the purge since I know that Ubah isn't coming back (per her cousin Aylan).. and Jenna is always hit or miss when it comes to whether she comes back or not... and I hope Jenna doesn't come back since she was very uncomfortable to watch (and I as an introvert understand where my strengths are.. and it isn't on reality tv LOL).

I keep saying that Naomi's becoming a mega bitch is because she still has a lot of unresolved issues with her father Bill and she's taking it out on all men. It's a natural reaction to some individuals (male and female) to take out their anger on one individual on an entire gender. The interesting thing is that there are moments where Ashley realizes she's not entirely blameless, but bitter Naomi quickly snaps her out of it because if she's in a bad place.. she's going to take others with her (ala Dani). She's exhibit A of toxic femininity

I like that Delores will still be on a housewife show.. and if not NJ then at least as a friend of on Rhode Island. Luann and Sonja were great as a duo in the small town, so I can see a road trip with a few housewives being entertaining.

No way did I ever put together that the actress that played Alma also played Mia on Gilmore Girls and the eccentric beauty salon owner Marsha on season 2 of Roseanne. Wow... that was a talented and versatile performer. RIP

Harley as a character was interesting, funny, and relatable during her 1987 to 1993 stint. When she came back in 1997, the writing for the character of Harley was off.. and I think Beth Ethlers had changed as an individual during her time away so her approach to playing Harley differed. I do recall as a child lots of scenes of Phillip/Harley together in 1988 where on the surface, it appeared as though he was helping her in a 'My Fair Lady' sort of way.. but I had forgotten that he was trying to set it up to have Alan Michael believe that he and Harley were hooking up. I also remember when Beth Chamberlain came back as Beth in late 1997, she was told that the show was slanting the story to be pro Phillip/Harley... so I believe that partly influenced the odd acting tics she used to play Beth during the 97/98/99 period before she reigned that in and played her a bit closer to how she played Beth in 1989-1991.

@MaximIf you do want to jump in on season 17 (which is the start of the modern OC.. for better or worse).. you would probably be a little lost because it's dominated by a lot of Tamra/Shannon dysfunction that happened during that season so in order to get an idea on how that whole situation started.. season 9 is a good resource to watch in order to understand the start of the Tamra/Shannon/Heather dynamic. When you get to season 18 and Alexis shows up as a 'friend of'... season 5 is a good resource point to see how she came onto the show and to give you context as to why she would go for a guy like John (Shannon's ex). When you get to season 19 and Gretchen shows up as a 'friend of'.... you would need to watch season 4 in order to get the backstory on Naked Wasted and the start of the whole Gretchen/Tamra situation. @alwaysAMC is correct though that season 9 is another good place to start off because that was when the show did a soft reset/reboot and Shannon was introduced. Many years ago, my late mom turned on OC by accident during season 8 and was so confused about the Gretchen/Tamra situation that I told her to start with season 4.. and she fell in love and binged watch season 4 through 8 before watching season 9 and becoming a die hard Shannon fan (and of course, she then went back to watch the first three seasons she missed because she became a fan of Jeana and to a lesser extent Lauri - the wallet whisperer).

I know that Jay, Heather, Steve, Betsy weren't mentioned in full details in his story bible when he became head-writer.. but I think he kept them on in order to see if there was some inspiration that would hit him and/or if they clicked with any of the new characters he intended to create/introduce. I do recall when Iva was first introduced.. she interacted a bit with Steve/Betsy while Jay was used as a red herring and talk to for the Frannie/Kevin/Doug/Marie story.. and I don't recall how Heather was used.. but I know that she lasted until 1986 as well before being written off.