Soaplovers

@Taoboi As you can attest and have heard from me non-stop LOL , I truly think had MVJ and co convinced Guza to extend his contract and remain as co-head-writer.. the pacing would be like it was the first months on the show where there was a lot of action and staggering of stories. I also think the show only getting 1 year pick-ups plus the huge lead time in written scripts (at least 5 months) & filming (at least 4 months) are probably putting the writers in a bit of a bind because they're only getting a 1 year pick up so it's probably easy at the start of the season to map out the pacing of the stories.. but then they start to stall some of the stories because they don't know if they're getting a pick up or not. I truly think that's why the Winterfest ended up being lackluster (I'm giving them grace on Easter). To me, I would have had this Cotillion in March where we could have seen some of the traditions, the catty bickering, some spring fashions, and perhaps Anita would have taken a turn for the worse.. which could have led to those powerful hospital scenes with Anita and family. As that is going on, I would have moved the clinic opening to April/May sweeps while starting to show some of the impact of The Impaler story going on (maybe Vernon pulls a string or two to get some of the plasma and/or other items for Anita, which puts him and the Duprees on the radar of the Impaler). Also, play up June's connection a bit more to the Impaler story since I have a feeling this story is serving to take from poor/unhoused in order to help the wealthy... and Vernon, without meaning to, just continues that process since the Duprees are old money. It would remind me of Riley Sager's 'Lock Every Door' book and plotline. The book didn't have a lot of locations other then the apartment building and few other places.. and it's considered one of the best stories that Mr Sager has penned.

From what I remember, Long was interested in bringing Rita back during the whole Roger coming story.. there was even a conversation or two between Ed/Alan about Rita as well. However, Lenore turned down the chance to come back since she was on the west coast by then. Not sure if just a rumor, or fact.. but anytime a soap mentions a long forgotten character.. they usually end up coming back.

I think the way that Lia is written and presented works because she's designed to be a short term character ( I think she lasts airs in May if I'm not mistaken) so her being a bit more broad/sinister is acceptable because we know she's not designed to be long term vs SPS who the show insists on keeping yet refuse to reign in the actress nor write more diverse content for the character to justify keeping her on canvas. As opposed to Hayley, who gets fiesty and mouthy when she's either with Lynette or Randy.. yet presents herself as more doting/slightly subdued when she's with Bill or the other characters. We're getting different sides to the Hayley (Val- didn't Lynette call her that) so she isn't being a cartoon. I'm glad the show backed off the poisoning Bill story somewhat because that would have written her into a corner.. though I expect that will come back to her haunt her down the road. May seems to be a big month since the character of Lia is set to end her run in May according to the cast write up when she joined, the Cotillion is happening, and I'm sure other things will pop in May... though I still wish there was a bit more staggering of the plots so that March had something going for it other then the Anita story and to a lesser extent Derek's journey post Ashley and moving into a new career. Tomas vs Hayley has been interesting... it's where AA's 'approach' seems to work best opposite MG's approach as Hayley. I hope they continue to have run ins in the coming weeks... and I'm hoping for another Derek vs SPS run in since he seems to push her buttons in a way that no one else can (plus, we did get a break from her this week).

Fantasies from 1982 is usually known for trying to combine a typical mystery thriller with a slasher film sheen.. and decided to use soap performers being killed off one by one. It was an interesting concept and I remember thinking the murders were pretty well done (especially Mattson's)... but the identity of the killer was a letdown... and the final twist makes me wonder if Brian De Palma watched it before doing Body Double.

From what I understood, when they were editing/adapting the source material for Fashion House.. they ended up running short on time so the episodes were padded with flashbacks. Wicked Wicked Wicked Game was my favorite of the telenovelas... Tatum O'neal was bat [!@#$%^&*] crazy in a good way and the way she handled Debbie Dunning (Tool Time Girl from Home Improvement) was intense. Saints & Sinners was pretty good when I viewed it... although a lot of characters were killed off on all these shows. Whatever happened to just leaving town LOL

I know that the show had been in the works in MVJ's head for years, and I wonder when it came to making her dream a reality if anyone sat her down and explained to her that some of her ideas might need to be adjusted/trimmed back due to budget concerns. Had this been the 80s or 90s, a lot of the Plasma story would be shown instead of told and the clinic would be shown as well... and probably SPS's Frankenstein esque new house, etc. I'm sure the clinic will be featured eventually. In regards to people working at Orphey Jeans instead of an office, I just want to point out that it's 2026 and a lot of people do work from an Orphey Jeans or a coffee shop during the day. Vanessa as a real estate person doesn't really need an office since real estate people are out and about meeting clients, making sure the houses she's showing are in tip top shape, advertising her listings on social media, etc. Naomi seems more like a prosecutor so her job would require her to be at the police station a lot so she doesn't need an office. I would say a clinic set should have been created since that seems to be a new place for the plasma ring to occur. Eva/Kat/Chelsea have jobs that can be done remotely.. same as Dani. Nicole has an office.. actually she has two offices (one at home for her outside functions and one at the office for patients). Perhaps one of her offices could have been used for another character. In regards to the recent episodes, seeing Vanessa/Deanna/Donnell together makes me really sad that the show didn't think to feature them both on recurring basis from the start. That way we could have seen both Deanna and Donnell interacting with Doug, being curious about what Vanessa was doing, and they could have been mixing it up with the other younger people... perhaps Chelsea could have used Deanna to help with her new line and perhaps Donnell could have had issues with hazing at his frat, etc. I guess I'm saying again that Tyyrell/Samantha weren't needed and should have remained younger kids... perhaps still have featured June in her unhoused story, getting herself a job at Orphey Genes, becoming more sure of herself.. and later on down the road have it come out that Tyrrell/Samantha were her kids. The actress that plays Deanna looks like she could be Vanessas daughter and has father's quick temper while Donnell has Vanessa's tortured look mixed with Doug's intensity. Great casting for both.

I always wondered how Alan Michael would have fared had Carl stayed on beyond his initial three year contract. In the short term, the whole Blake/Alan Michael relationship/dynamic would have changed. When he was playing Alan Michael, Blake came across like a predator grooming her victim (sounds just like her father Roger).. but once Hearst took over and he carried himself off with more maturity.. the whole creepy predator vibe went away and it became about Blake's lie about being pregnant.. with Blake/Alan Michael having that unhealthy push/pull dynamic till around 1992/1993.

I think it would be interesting and fascinating to see Vanessa climb her way out of the bin and try to get back into everyone's good graces.

That was my theory from day 1 since we didn't see anything after Marcel was approaching Doug.. and we never really saw a body. I was assuming that Marcel was working with someone (maybe Vernon and/or Elon) to get the goods on Joey. I have a feeling that Joey is looking like the savior, but I have a feeling he's due for a fall.

Can you keep the politics out of the soap opera board. It would be nice to have one place where that's kept to a minimum. To me, Joey is the heavy in order to ensure that the Duprees and Duprees adjacent have their hands clean.. and since Joey is in good with the police.. it seems like a win win (even if it's totally unethical).

I remember when the news was announced in 2009 and my mom was saying 'This a bad April Fools Day joke, but I have a feeling this isn't a joke. It's fate was sealed in 1993 when Maureen was killed off, that being the first nail in the coffin.' There really wasn't a way that the show could continue and still be feasible unless they scaled back the cast, writers, crew, and moved the show on-line. With this being 2009, that prospect was still in it's infancy.. and the AMC/OLTL experiment in 2013 was a few years away (viewership high.. but well over-budget).

Watching the first 90 to 100 episodes of DS, it did lean toward the butler Hanscomb being connected to Victoria, the lookalike portrait featuring B. Hanscomb (dropped after episode 97, had later writers remembered this story, the painting could have been Victoria traveling aimlessly through time), and the secretive calls between the Sr Garner attorney and Elizabeth. The other hint dropped about Victoria was in episode 274 (her final VO episode intro) where Jason mentioned he knew a lot about Victoria and her past.. and opted to leave town never telling her. Joe/Carolyn marrying was in the bible as something that was proposed for future story after the initial stories were done, same with the original Laura story and how Victoria tied to her.

Originally the plan was that Victoria was going to be the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth's husband Paul... and she felt guilty once she found out about her hence the money sent to the foundling home and then hiring her as a governess. However, the plan changed... but it became less important as the supernatural elements took focus... but hints were dropped about Victoria being her daughter (i.e. the house by the sea that Burke/Vicki couldn't have because only a member of the Collins family could own it, she mentioned she was an orphan and would talk about her memories, etc). I think it never being revealed is why Victoria is such a tragic character and is still viewed in a way that makes her memorable. Other planned stories that never happened on Dark shadows: Joe/Carolyn were supposed to marry and have it be a miserable marriage, Joe/Maggie were never a coupling, and the Phoenix Laura (David's mom) was supposed to have been an alcoholic that came back to get custody of the son.. she dies and Victoria is accused of killing her.

In regards to Andre/Dani - What the show is showing, without meaning to, is that Dani/Andre have no substance other than physical. I'm actually somebody that isn't big into love scenes at all, especially if there isn't any substance with them. I will say that I think Andre is more into Dani, than Dani isn't him. If Bill came to the door tomorrow and said he divorced Hayley and wanted a second chance... Dani would say 'Andre who?' Vanessa is the 2026 version of an empowered woman that equates sex with power and empowerment, but I see it more as someone that actually isn't empowered whatsoever. I think the show should have had Donnell and Deanna on from the start and taken the place of Tyrrell & Samantha (two characters that really don't gel..imho). Had D & D been on from the start, we could have seen them interacting with Doug.. perhaps seem more of Vanessa trying to still be the societal version of a wife and mother, etc. LB does much better when she reigns it in. She has an expressive face, and I think that should be used to express how she's truly feeling while putting on a brave face. Sad to see that Shanice is following in the footsteps of past recurring characters that lose the very essence and elements of what made her character popular. Thank gosh the actress is able to maintain those elements despite the writing working against her.

I remember in the first few months, there were some complaints on some the forums about how fast paced the show and not allowing the plot twists and revelations to play out before going to the next plot twist/revelation. So I think one of the adjustments the show probably made was to slow the pace down a bit and allow character moments to shine through. There are strong scenes and I like that the show isn't afraid to mix up characters and have them interact with different scene partners. I think it's a lot of telling and showing... and almost like they're afraid to have the Duprees have any sort of conflict and exploration. I often said that Naomi and Chelsea are the way they are due to having Bill/Dani as parents. To me, I think Naomi preferred to be around Bill because he was more decisive and less prone to fly off the handle.. and she ended up becoming the more mature one in the family and had to be the parent to her parents (there were a few remarks Naomi made to Dani when she was melting down saying she wasn't going through this again) while Chelsea was sheltered and made to have the career that Dani regretted giving up for marriage/love.. and Bill's cheating caused Dani to operate on high octane and she poured that energy out to Chelsea.. and I think that was why Chelsea had a harder time forgiving her father because deep down, she blamed him for subjecting her to her mother's more explosive tendencies. I think if the show really delved into it, it would give Dani a great story about how her stunted maturity had an adverse effect on her daughters in different ways. The show has sort of done this with Bill to a degree.. but the shows seems almost afraid to really go there with Dani. And with Kat and Martin, they seemed to have had a more stable upbringing and I'm sure Kat being a miracle baby made Ted/Nicole dote on her and Kat would understandably be a bit more entitled and spoiled.. while Martin also had some of that upbringing once Kat was born. He came off very snooty especially the way he used to talk down to Smitty. I understand where MVJ is going with the show, but I think she operates more on how soaps used to be (where viewers could analyze the motivations for themselves without a lot of exposition).. but a lot of viewers nowadays need to be constantly told why people are they way they are.

Had it been a 60s-70s soap.. .then the show wouldn't have killed the Eva/Kat/Tomas triangle.. which had good development and all the elements of a great soap opera triangle of yesteryear.. and it gets killed just as it starts to get good.

I think it depends on the show, but I think recurring means you pay the performer for when they actually appear in the show vs contract where you have to pay them a guaranteed amount even if they don't appear. Since Ben Gavin was not appearing consistently (and I think someone mentioned he was doing a movie for awhile), it made sense to put him on recurring (I know Tracy Bregman opted to go recurring because she couldn't get time off to do things with her children.. and Mr Gavin is a new dad so maybe this arrangement allows him time to do a few indie projects and spend time with his baby). In regards to you would have be on contract.. I would rather have Donnell and Deanna on full time/on contract... and 86 the Tyyrell/Samantha characters. In fact, I would have rather D & D have been on during this whole time grappling with Doug/Vanessa/Joey.. so that when Doug passed.. we would have at least seen Doug and his relationship with D & D. And for me, I like the character driven stuff... but you gotta have plot movement at the same time.. and have the climaxes be staggered. I was looking up the last twenty to thirty episodes of Guza's stint.. and i was surprised at how much happened during that timeframe (Doug's death, Eva/Tomas hooked up, the start of Tomas and Hayley's conflict, and Hayley's reveal of not being the doting wife). Since episode 151, we've only seen the Derek/Ashley/Andre situation have movement and resolution with Derek being discovered faking, Ashley dumping Derek, and Andre telling Ashley the ship has sailed. And the Anita story really didn't kick off the the higher 190s. In this day and age, you gotta have some action to go along with the character driven moments.

Wasn't the story started before the strike? I remember during Amanda's visit in December 1987, Phillip was asking for her voting shares. I think the story got warped/ended quickly because of the strike. It caused the end of Chelsea's relationship with Phillip, caused the end of Phillips friendship with Reva, and caused him to hook up with Meredith eventually when she was on the outs with Rick. Watching even more of the strike episodes, it's funny that Blake is basically a floater character hanging with Johnny, trading barbs with Chelsea, working with Phillip, friendly with Alex (that doesn't last LOL), and even getting Fletcher/Maeve to be leery of her. In addition to her random phone calls and going to a playground a lot in a sad mood. Not only viewers were curious she is was, but as it turned out.. Pam Long was curious as well as the scab writers LOL The Sonni story was confusing, but I think it made it more interesting. And after doing some research, it is plausible for Sonni could realistically be played by Michelle Forbes and be Venezuelan. After all, Venezuela has around 40 to 45 % white people of European descent and it's possible maybe Sonni's family might have been European and adapted to the culture hence the father's name and Solita's name.. while Sonni could be an ancestral name from Europe. I say this because my father was born to European descended individuals and lived there till he was 14/15 years old before he came to the United States.. and he had a European name, but knew Portuguese and English.

There were episodes where Reva/Phillip talked on the phone in 1989 right around Blake and Phillip's wedding where they remarked how much they missed one another.. even discussed why they were no longer friends.. and it all stemmed from Alan (i.e. when Reva was dating Alan.. and I think Phillip used Reva to help him take Spaulding away from Alan). And in November 1989, Alex and Reva had that one on one where Alex confided in Reva about Phillip being commited to a mental hospital and Reva being sympathetic to Alex especially once she heard he had tried to dig up Beth's grave because he believe she was alive (this was before it was discovered that Beth's grave was empty). The way Zimmer played her reactions were on point.. especially when hearing it was due to Beth.. since the two were probably friends when Beth was persumed dead.. and Lillian was dating Hawk at the time as well.

@DeeVee It's entirely plausible and expected for Alex to fall for someone like Roger Thorpe since she didn't obtain mental health nor truly deal with the trauma. Reasons why it's plausible. History of control and coercion: Having no autonomy over her life due to her father and being forced to give up her child. Vulnerability to charm: Denied love and nurturing in her formative years in a healthy way, a charming man like Roger Thorpe would give her validation that he sees her true worth so it would make ignore all rational warnings. Over-correction: She was controlled and had choices taken from her, so she doubles down on her decision to marry Roger.. so even if Fletcher and her family is giving her sound advice.. she's still governed by her past trauma with Brandon and refuses to listen/be controlled like that again. Repeat past situations: Roger and his bad reputation satisfied within Alex the familiarity of her upbringing. It follows patterns she was familiar with even though she didn't enjoy them.. they're imprinted in her.

There was one rumor where Peter Bergman basically told Braedon to learn his lines, which didn't set well with Braedon and led to a huge fight between the two. It highlighted the New York soap vs LA soap mindset..imho. Watching the Locher Room interviews, Zimmer seemed like a mean girl. She was probably jealous of Forbes and Watros.. both seem pretty confident and sure of themselves.. which must have driven Zimmer crazy (In a soap opera book, she remarked how she couldn't get time off the Doctors to film Body Heat as the lead so she only could get enough time off for a smaller part). So I'm sure felt jealous/resentful at both of them.. who did end up having pretty consistent careers in and out of daytime. From what I heard about Zaslow was that he could cut up and be a goofball, advocated for actors, and I bet he also maybe put different approaches to the words he spoke. Perhaps Beverlee was someone that was more old school and traditional. Or maybe they just didn't click.

Young and the Restless Nina had one or two dropped stories herself. 1) The search for Nina's father. There was a lot of back and forth between Nina and Flo about who her father was with Flo refusing to disclose his name, Nina going through Flo's things to find out who he was, Flo freaking out, and then revealing that she didn't know who he was.. but described him (including a scar on his face). Meanwhile, Jed Saunders recently came to town and had the very scar on his face.. and it looked as though he was going to be revealed as Nina's father. Nina saw him, struck up conversations and got to know him.. then decided to invite him over to meet her mom... but Flo met Jed and later told Nina that he wasn't the guy that she was with before. The story dropped after that with Nina not continuing to find her father and Jed was moved into the Nikki and Jill orbits (that's another dropped story.. a potential Jill/Jed/Nikki triangle where Josh Taylor had chemistry with both actresses and the two actresses had good rapport as well). 2) This other dropped story was more due to Tricia Cast opting to quit the show in early 2001, but there were rumors that Kay Alden was intending for Nina to find her first born that was stolen from her. She set up 'A Star is Born' story with Nina meeting a writer, he helping her to improve her writing by writing what she knows, she then deciding to write about her experiences with losing her first born child (lots of flashbacks to Rose, Cricket in a disguise, Nina as a teen).. and the book was getting published while her writer boyfriend was struggling to get his next book published. There were rumors that had Tricia Cast not quit, the next part of the story was going to be her finding her first born child.. and that the signs were pointing to either Raul or JT as that lost child. Had that panned out... that would have bought Nina and Jill back in the same orbit as enemies since Raul/JT were connected to Jill's son Billy. What could have been.

I think the Marilyn story point wasn't dropped, I think it changed due to the head-writer change. I truly think the Dobson's had intended there to be something sinister that was set to come out. They set up Angela/Warren interacting with him interested in finding out what happened to Marilyn while she was jealous of her estranged husband's interest in Julia. If I recall the timeline correctly, Warren/Angela start hooking up while the Dobson's are head-writing.. I think it was right around the time Amado was killed and Craig losing his mind. The Dobson's also decided to flip the Cassie character changing her from their perspective of a grey character to being the obstacle for Warren/Angela. I know that one the early things that Pam Long did when taking over as head-writer was bring back up the Marilyn story with flashbacks to scenes of a young David/Angela getting out of the car wondering where Marilyn was... with a crazed Cassie trying to use this as a way to break Warren/Angela up. I think the high school reunion (where Kim Zimmer's Jodie was introduced) was where the Marilyn story finally came out where Angela felt extreme guilt for the death of Marilyn.. because she was the driver, maybe jealous of Marilyn/David. The story actually made Angela more of a tragic anti-heroine than an antagonist.. and Cassie ended up having a mental break when her plan didn't work. The last scenes of Cassie were her trying to get better in a retreat and Warren telling Cassie that it was horrible they were kept apart due to lies, they couldn't go back and that he was focusing on his future with the last scenes of Cassie vowing to get better. I would say the story was changed with the new head-writer in order to tie up the Cassie story, resolve a plot point that didn't have much focus, gave backstory on the tension between David/Angela, and made Angela sympathetic for carrying huge guilt. Another Santa Barbara story that was dropped was involving the character of Suzanne (the real Suzanne that Eden borrowed for her split personality). Once her brief fling with Cruz ended, Pam Long had promised there was going to be a new chapter and romance in her life. The writing seemed to indicate that Ted/Suzanne were going to be a couple.. with their banter, food fight, Suzanne assuming her restoration work was ruined by ted, etc.. with the main conflict for a possible relationship being that he was dating her friend and roommate Katrina (I would have also added the Eden element.. but the show seemed determined to not mention her much). However, by mid summer, after Suzanne is injured in a fall from a cliff due to her work at restoring a photo in the haunted mansion mystery (Ballymoor).. she decided to cut ties and leave town. Made me wonder if the shaky status of the show (only given a six month pick up) caused Long to cut short whatever plans she had for Suzanne.. or if she didn't see Ted/Suzanne as working since she focused Ted eventually toward Angela's orbit, wrote out Katrina and eventually had an odd Ted/Lily/Angela/CC sort of situation develop in the last weeks of the show.

The 1980-1982 period of AMC will forever fascinate me especially given the uploaded episodes that sprinkle in from 1980-1982 where you see the OG AMC elements of 70s mixing in the AMC elements of the 80s. I only remember seeing Pamela as played by this actress in the 1982 episode where Erica has her number. I also remember the character coming back at the end of 1987/early 1988 played by a different actress.. and keeping herself hidden from Erica while showing interest in Travis. Whatever plans were being developed seemed to get deep sixed by the 5 month long writers strike.. and when the strike came back.. Erica was dealing with issues with Travis and turning to a man never Steven/Steve (I believe). That same strike also seemed to derail the foundation building being done with the show leaning into a Silver/Jeremy/Jack/Natalie story.. with Palmer being an outside puppet-master. It seemed as though Jack/Natalie were being played as either an end game couple and/or a temp coupling until Natalie/Jeremy reunited.

I would be more interested if the Duprees had some members feuding with one another instead of the boring 'Dupree Strong' mantra. This is a soap opera, not a Hallmark Channel movie. Anita story is pretty well written, but I don't want someone going through cancer so it's fast forward for me due to personal reasons. Other than movement in that story.. every other story seems to be either told (not shown), dropped and resumed later on. MVJ, I know it's her baby... but she needs to hand over reigns to someone that can actually plot out a story. Her strengths are script writing and story ideas, but the woman can't plot a story to save her life. Guza could plot a story out, and i think that's why the first six to seven months were moving at a nice pace with the three intro stories being staggered so we got payoffs (Dani going nuclear at Bill/Hayley's wedding in week 1, SPS introducing Ted to his secret daughter Eva around episode 60, Martin story peaking after that, Doug/Vanessa/Joey story hit a peak in the 120s to 130s range, Chelsea's kidnapping had seeds in the first week that came to be between episodes 100 to 130, and Hayley's reveal as a con artist/black widow wannabe at episode 150.. a perfect conclusion to Guza's stint as co-headwriter). Thomson seems like she understands how to write certain characters (Derek, Ashley).. but she doesn't seem to be any better at pacing a story then MVJ. And the EP situation... too many of them working on this show.. trim the fat and the money you save can be applied to building a set for the clinic and perhaps Vanessa's office (which actually could be a redress of Nicole's office).