Sounds like there might be some movement at last with this Hayley story.

-- I have mixed feelings about today's show.

-- On one hand, I've wanted to see how Hayley inserted and integrated herself into the Hamilton family since day one. On the other, some of the scenes just weren't effective.

-- I'm OK with Bill becoming Hayley and Randy's mark -- although I could have done without hearing that Joey Armstrong -- the white savior who's all-powerful -- would never fall for her.

-- Getting closer to the Hamiltons worked, but that first romantic scene with Bill and Hayley did not. We needed a lot more flirting and looks and suggestion before that.

-- And hearing Bill tell Caroline that it was never just physical with Hayley was laughable. I mean, she doesn't come off as this brain trust who's filled with depth and empathy. That just made Bill look stupid. It'd be better to say he was swept away by her looks and youth.

-- I don't like Dani grieving like this -- not when she knows what she has with Andre. These grief scenes should have been flashbacks from the time period immediately after the betrayal. After all that grief and discussion with Andre she looks at her phone memory pic of her and Bill? Just stop.

-- I know many viewers want Bill and Dani back together and that may be the plan, but episodes like this convince me that's the last thing I want. They continually remind us of what an awful husband Bill was to Dani, and I do not want her to go back to him.

-- Randy and Hayley continuing to meet at Uptown is beyond ridiculous.

2 hours ago, ranger1rg said:

-- I have mixed feelings about today's show.

-- On one hand, I've wanted to see how Hayley inserted and integrated herself into the Hamilton family since day one. On the other, some of the scenes just weren't effective.

-- I'm OK with Bill becoming Hayley and Randy's mark -- although I could have done without hearing that Joey Armstrong -- the white savior who's all-powerful -- would never fall for her.

-- Getting closer to the Hamiltons worked, but that first romantic scene with Bill and Hayley did not. We needed a lot more flirting and looks and suggestion before that.

-- And hearing Bill tell Caroline that it was never just physical with Hayley was laughable. I mean, she doesn't come off as this brain trust who's filled with depth and empathy. That just made Bill look stupid. It'd be better to say he was swept away by her looks and youth.

-- I don't like Dani grieving like this -- not when she knows what she has with Andre. These grief scenes should have been flashbacks from the time period immediately after the betrayal. After all that grief and discussion with Andre she looks at her phone memory pic of her and Bill? Just stop.

-- I know many viewers want Bill and Dani back together and that may be the plan, but episodes like this convince me that's the last thing I want. They continually remind us of what an awful husband Bill was to Dani, and I do not want her to go back to him.

-- Randy and Hayley continuing to meet at Uptown is beyond ridiculous.

I have similar feelings on this.

Also, having a full episode just focusing on one storyline...if it's going to work, and there were some revealing moments (Hailey/Val expressing an apparently genuine moment of regret for the loss of her friendship was odd, after just calling her and Chelsea brats, but Marquita Goings made that contradiction work, somehow) every scene has to work really well, or else, you feel like there are definite lulls and there were scenes where I felt restless, as if I were watching filler. Maybe it was the overly-expository dialogue, at times. The idea was a good one but the execution, at times, was a bit clumsy.

And yeah, the idea that Joey was too smart to be scammed but big dumb Bill is, really toes the line into being borderline offensive. I don't think that Bernie Madoff ever thought that there was a mark out there that was 'too smart' for his schemes. In a way, that statement also makes Hailey and Sammy/Randy look incompetent as confidence man and confidence woman. These implications, bordering on stereotypes give me the ick.

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

The idea was a good one but the execution, at times, was a bit clumsy.

I agree with this and with pretty much everything you said. When it's all packed into one episode, the clumsy is going to stand out.

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

And yeah, the idea that Joey was too smart to be scammed but big dumb Bill is, really toes the line into being borderline offensive. I don't think that Bernie Madoff ever thought that there was a mark out there that was 'too smart' for his schemes. In a way, that statement also makes Hailey and Sammy/Randy look incompetent as confidence man and confidence woman. These implications, bordering on stereotypes give me the ick.

I got the ick, too, and I do find stuff like this offensive. You want to protect the Joey character? Fine, but there's no need to pimp him to this extent.

I cannot believe this writing staff doesn't consider the optics of stuff like this.

34 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

I agree with this and with pretty much everything you said. When it's all packed into one episode, the clumsy is going to stand out.

I got the ick, too, and I do find stuff like this offensive. You want to protect the Joey character? Fine, but there's no need to pimp him to this extent.

I cannot believe this writing staff doesn't consider the optics of stuff like this.

Some of the optics have been truly terrible and yeah, it's unbelievable that the writers don't see it.