10 hours ago, Broderick said:

 

14 hours ago, AMCHistory said:

What was Lynn’s send off?

She basically walked into Paul's office, threw some papers down on his desk, and said, "Please sign these, Boss.  And by the way, although I've never mentioned her before in my entire life, I have an old sick aunt who lives a million miles away, and I need to leave Genoa City forever to care for her.  Oh, and my plane leaves in five minutes.  Bye!" 

Miguel got the same treatment.  He randomly told Nikki, "Senora, I've finished the dusting.  Oh!  I must leave town forever if it is agreeable with you."  She snatched an old clock off the mantel, thrust it into his hands, and said, "Here, take this with you as a gift for your decades of loyal service.  And don't forget to close the door when you leave.  Bye!" 

All those types of characters were dumped with no warning in the first round of budget cuts, and if you blinked you missed their exits. 

 

Thanks for this clarity. These really were blinked and you missed them moments. I was a pretty regular watcher at this time thanks to being at uni. 

The crew of “recurring extras” really brought a lot to the depth and diversity of the Genoa City canvas. It was not just the Lynn, Miguel, and Sharks of the world, it was the secretary’s and baristas that Y&R was able to keep consistent for a decade at a time. It felt like a real community you were peaking into. 

I just saw the Nikki/Jordan scene and was left feeling underwhelmed, as it all seemed beyond lazy and formulaic. Janice Ferri Esser has watched too way many bad hostage movies and cribbed a lot of that cliché dialogue. The expository scenes at the ranch with the Newmans were kinda mind-numbing.

Nikki’s “drunk acting” was a bit overdone. I really wanted to see the Clash of the Titans, but Nikki bobbing and weaving and slurring ruined that opportunity. And Nikki not grabbing the gun when she knocked Jordan out… my God.

I love CZ, but Jordan is such a sketchily, poorly written character, and her hamminess is very grating. At least with Barbara on ATWT, even though she sometimes went over-the-top during the Sheffer years, she had a substantial backstory to support her performance.

 

Edited December 30, 20231 yr by Faulkner

Jordan arc much like Cameron return gave me bad Lifetime movie energy.

On 12/28/2023 at 9:23 PM, Paul Raven said:

I really don't see the point of these characters being dragged out for one day stories that lead nowhere.

Filler material.

It’s giving, that JG overshot his A storyline (I.e. the “Whatever Happened To Baby Eve?”) and it wrapped in such a time frame that he needed something to fill the lull. I guess he figured that nothing would succeed like a soap wedding (or vow renewal) of a couple with a vocal fan base (however large or small that fan base might be). The fact that JG couldn’t even write enough material to extend this storyline beyond a, what six week or so stretch? SMH. He needs to go back to the basics of writing out a storyline projection.

7 hours ago, kalbir said:

Jordan arc much like Cameron return gave me bad Lifetime movie energy.

There is good camp and bad camp. CZ in her latest scenes has been bad camp. With the poor production values, calling Lifetime is an undeserved compliment. 

They better have a good plan for Claire, or this baby Eve story is a lot of waste storyline potential. It reminds me of the introduction of Ronan. A storyline and character so deeply rooted in history, but a fumbled post-intro storyline execution. What should have been a major moment and character is now a footnote. 

7 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

The fact that JG couldn’t even write enough material to extend this storyline beyond a, what six week or so stretch? SMH. He needs to go back to the basics of writing out a storyline projection.

Totally agree but wonder if Josh isn't under some directive from a bonehead at CBS or Sony to do these quick arc stories under the misguided belief that a short stint, hyped up stories might grab more eyeballs than a longer term version.

There seems to be a belief that soaps have to do short scenes and stories because today's viewers demand it and if a scene is perceived to be too long or not punchy enough viewers will switch over.

No doubt things move faster today but the soaps USP of being able to dig deeper and keep viewers hooked by slowly unravelling a story seems to have been lost.

Another reason for the truncated story telling might be down to budget-keeping CZ around too long would eat up too much money. Instead she does her stint and then another short term character can be brought in for another story.

3 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Totally agree but wonder if Josh isn't under some directive from a bonehead at CBS or Sony to do these quick arc stories under the misguided belief that a short stint, hyped up stories might grab more eyeballs than a longer term version.

There seems to be a belief that soaps have to do short scenes and stories because today's viewers demand it and if a scene is perceived to be too long or not punchy enough viewers will switch over.

No doubt things move faster today but the soaps USP of being able to dig deeper and keep viewers hooked by slowly unravelling a story seems to have been lost.

Another reason for the truncated story telling might be down to budget-keeping CZ around too long would eat up too much money. Instead she does her stint and then another short term character can be brought in for another story.

If it is indeed pressure from an executive, it really means that JG can’t stand or won’t up for his own (or better) ideas and writing as the master head writers of old, which, I don’t know if that gives him more or less culpability. It just makes him seem like a “hired gun” without a backbone, just willingly writing anyway he’s told for dollars. This may come off as harsh but, people will treat you the way you allow them to treat you. I remember an interview a soap actor on a different CBS soap did a few years ago where he talked about how the network executives would try to pressure that HW away from certain material and the HW would nod and say yes and then write the story he wanted to anyway. He never got fired and that was during the heyday of daytime soaps when competition was fierce and he could’ve been replaced. He wasn’t replaced because he knew how to write good stories (at least for the vast majority of his tenure) and he fought to tell them.
JG has shown a long-running problem of truncating stories in the oddest way that cheapens an otherwise decent story, he did it with Lauren’s “Unfaithful” storyline, he’s been known to do this with Sharon’s umpteenth redemption story. He has definitely made it a consistent way of how he tells stories.
At this point, I don’t believe these writers are following what they believe viewers want, they seem to believe any story they tell, if it involves popular characters and actors fans want to see, will be accepted and it usually is because die-hard soap fans are desperate to see their faves get a story. They very much take their viewers for granted, that if they give just enough material that is pleasing to fans, the rest won’t matter much.

I think you do indeed have a point about the confines of keeping CZP around longer than is allocated in the budget but good writing could have kept Claire navigating and cultivating the Newmans for a few more weeks before injecting Jordan in the mix. If there was any build up of intrigue before Claire went ham and Jordan entered the mix, I must have missed it. If she was groomed to believe Victoria was her mother, why did she not at least try to spend some time finding out about Victoria, maybe slyly try to engage Victoria into talking about her relationships with her family, namely her kids? Was Nikki getting any strange phone calls before Jordan appeared? It seems like they could have written her as getting hang up calls that she at first deems wrong numbers and dismisses until the calls she receives become odder and more cryptic. They wouldn’t need CZP for that in the beginning. More thought going into how these stories are laid out might actually help the budget, rather than bust it. 

If Bill Bell were writing this story with Jordan and "Cleve," your heart would be breaking as much for Jordan as it would for Cole and Victoria.  That was the brilliance of his work.

55 minutes ago, Khan said:

If Bill Bell were writing this story with Jordan and "Cleve," your heart would be breaking as much for Jordan as it would for Cole and Victoria.  That was the brilliance of his work.

Taking time to lay the groundwork for a story is not a budget buster. Much of the groundwork for the story should have been laid before we even saw Jordan. It was done at top speed and all we are left are caricatures. I don’t get the feeling of any genuine love between Jordan and Claire from how this story was told. Claire comes off as a tool to be used at will by Jordan, for kicks, is what it looks like. It makes me question what Jordan is actually doing this for, because the writing gives me nothing in terms of any real connection between Jordan and her sister Eve Howard. The one thing, and I mean the only thing that I find interesting is whether Cole will stick around and if this whole thing was a means to bring he and Victoria back together. We all know that Victoria stays having a new relationship.

I guess we’ll always have our memories of the classic Y&R storylines @Khan.

And I still think CZP’s skills could have been better served as a recast Margo Linley on B&B. I am not sure where the character of Eric Forrester is these days, I don’t watch the show anymore and I have only somewhat read the rumors, but in any case, a brief visit by Margo could have been good.

3 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Taking time to lay the groundwork for a story is not a budget buster. Much of the groundwork for the story should have been laid before we even saw Jordan. It was done at top speed and all we are left are caricatures. I don’t get the feeling of any genuine love between Jordan and Claire from how this story was told. Claire comes off as a tool to be used at will by Jordan, for kicks, is what it looks like. It makes me question what Jordan is actually doing this for, because the writing gives me nothing in terms of any real connection between Jordan and her sister Eve Howard. The one thing, and I mean the only thing that I find interesting is whether Cole will stick around and if this whole thing was a means to bring he and Victoria back together. We all know that Victoria stays having a new relationship.

I guess we’ll always have our memories of the classic Y&R storylines @Khan.

And I still think CZP’s skills could have been better served as a recast Margo Linley on B&B. I am not sure where the character of Eric Forrester is these days, I don’t watch the show anymore and I have only somewhat read the rumors, but in any case, a brief visit by Margo could have been good.

You know I love you, but I have to disagree with the setup on the Claire/Jordan storyline. It all started with Nikki mentioning needing an assistant. The viewers got to see the interview with Claire (and here we were discussing how HK was bland and I was in the minority because I said she looked like she gave crazy eyes and looked what happened. lol). She got hired and was kept in the background as other stories happened like Tucker/Ashley, Tales of the Giggly Heffa, my lovely triangle of Heather/Daniel/Lily, etc. where characters gave her tea on how characters were connected. Claire crossed with a few characters...mostly Newmans if not all Newmans. We also saw she appeared good at her job. I felt like that happened over a few weeks, but it did happen slow and gradually. Speaking of gradual

 

THEN they added mystery. Claire's having a stare at a picture of Victoria. The newspaper clippings. And of course, Claire taking Nikki hostage. And then...enter Jordan.

 

Now the Jordan stuff to me felt rushed. But I assume they had CZ for a limited time. I would love to keep her, but I felt like it was overdue that the Newmans had some drama time. And it's been a minute...outside of the start of Sally/Nick and I do love that this story was firmly started and still continues to Nikki... since I was interested in anything Newman versus the Abbotts who are still spinning storyline gold for me as well as the Winters with Mamie back. And I felt it was tense for the most part and action-filled. And I still loved the coda of Jordan in the walls with the music and camera word. I love the gothic of it.

 

That said...Jordan on the loose and the aftermath has been a little zig-zagging for me. Perhaps they did the 'Claire is Eve by DNA' part too soon. And like you, I do want to know if Cole is sticking around because potential. 

 

But I felt this story has been quite well paced and not in a done in three weeks (which is JG's MO) kinda of way. Beats have been played IMHO. Heck, I'm currently watching 12-26 and they keep reminding in writing that Jordan and Eve had fallen out...something they touched on at the climax at the house, but I have noted how they keep reminding the audience. 

23 hours ago, Faulkner said:

I just saw the Nikki/Jordan scene and was left feeling underwhelmed, as it all seemed beyond lazy and formulaic. Janice Ferri Esser has watched too way many bad hostage movies and cribbed a lot of that cliché dialogue. The expository scenes at the ranch with the Newmans were kinda mind-numbing.

Nikki’s “drunk acting” was a bit overdone. I really wanted to see the Clash of the Titans, but Nikki bobbing and weaving and slurring ruined that opportunity. And Nikki not grabbing the gun when she knocked Jordan out… my God.

Watching now and I am mostly feeling the same way. 

 

However, i felt better when Nikki said she was faking being THAT amount of drunk. I was like 'well, go Nikki' cuz her bobbling was bugging me. 

 

I also wanted Nikki to grab the gun. Cuz...really? I mean...Nikki has tangoed with Diane Jenkins in office for pete's sake. I expected a little more out of her. 

32 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

You know I love you, but I have to disagree with the setup on the Claire/Jordan storyline. It all started with Nikki mentioning needing an assistant. The viewers got to see the interview with Claire (and here we were discussing how HK was bland and I was in the minority because I said she looked like she gave crazy eyes and looked what happened. lol). 

No problem, agree to disagree. From a writing perspective, it was missing beats (where was the reversal? Who played the part of the red herring in the piece? Where were the rising complications?) 

I was thinking of what @Khanmentioned about the way WJB layered his characters and stories. Claire seemed like a very basic archer and Jordan (despite the yeoman’s work put in by CZP to make Jordan entertaining) seems like a caricature of JG’s recent villains. Although, at this point, I half expect there to be some odd sort of jailbreak where Jordan goes, on the run. The performances were good but the story itself felt predictable and fell very flat. JMO though and I tend to be a tough critic.

1 minute ago, DramatistDreamer said:

No problem, agree to disagree. From a writing perspective, it was missing beats (where was the reversal? Who played the part of the red herring in the piece? Where were the rising complications?) 

I was thinking of what @Khanmentioned about the way WJB layered his characters and stories. Claire seemed like a very basic archer and Jordan (despite the yeoman’s work put in by CZP to make Jordan entertaining) seems like a caricature of JG’s recent villains. Although, at this point, I half expect there to be some odd sort of jailbreak where Jordan goes, on the run. The performances were good but the story itself felt predictable and fell very flat. JMO though and I tend to be a tough critic.

I keep wanting to say they had all that at the 'cabin' well house when they did the Claire is Eve reveal. If anything they could have stretched Nikki as hostage out LONGER to give it more stakes. Or they getting all the Newmans there one...by...ONE. But I can agree to disagree.

 

I thought about saying this in my previous post, but this works here. William Bell was definitely so great at how he layered his stories...as well as paced them. I felt JG (or the strike writers) did decent with this one...and I feel the same for the strike writers work over at GH. Moreso but I digress...because this had a beginning, a middle, and (as of 12-26) an end of sorts.

 

But one can't help but wonder if we will ever have layed pacing like William Bell had ever again? Because yes, Bell would have you feeling sorry for ALL the characters if not understanding what makes them tick. Watching CZ vamp it up, I was just happy to see someone standing up to Victor and coming across as a threat. But yeah, she was one dimensional.

Josh Griffith thinks that he is writing old people's Melrose Place. 

Crisis after crisis with no real impact and emotion. 

On 1/1/2024 at 5:44 AM, Sapounopera said:

Josh Griffith thinks that he is writing old people's Melrose Place. 

Crisis after crisis with no real impact and emotion. 

B-I-N-G-O!

Watching the 2003 episode where Kevin has Colleen in the freezer and sets Gina’s on fire is wild. Crazy how the show forcibly redeemed him. Seems like a character that should have zero staying power. And tbh most of the time Kevin was around when I got into Y&R I didn’t care for him.

Interesting seeing Michael and Lauren before they became each others endgame on the show.

The music is still so good at this time.

There were SO many extras, I loved it.

Nikki vs Sharon will always be entertaining to me. 

I think I like this longer hair on SW’s Diane.

What in the world was going on with Ashley?!

Edited January 4, 20241 yr by Antoyne