Sally Sussman Morina is interviewed 

 

 

 

  

I guess I'll try to have a listen to this. I think her brief, truncated and very flawed return run was the closest Y&R came to rebuilding itself in recent years. That said, everything with her husband(?) is a shitshow.

I struggle with that show because some of the hosts can be very...crass and inarticulate, but I managed to make it through most of this and found it to be an interesting interview. I love hearing more about her 2016 return because the more I hear, the less sense it makes.

I don't understand how they reached out to her, hired her with no bible, then gave her one notice to start writing the show, yet still didn't give her at least a full year to prove herself. How do you knowingly hire someone who is telling you they haven't watched the show in 10 years and has ZERO story written and expect it to work right off the bat? It's just insane. Then to hear the extreme level of network interference is just bizarre to me. I feel like at NBC they just don't care because Days seems to tell whatever story they want to tell. It amazes me that there are still people behind the scenes nitpicking Y&R and GH. You'd think at this point they wouldn't care as long as the shows are underbudget. 

I feel like in her last stint she completely transformed the canvas and made the characters feel like their true selves. Had she been allowed to actually write, I do think it would've been a great show. I haven't enjoyed the show day-to-day since she left. Even in those early periods where not much was happening, it was just so nice seeing different characters interacting and talking like you know they should. I also think her choice of exits made perfect sense.

I liked the love she gave Days and hopefully she has a good manager who can pitch her Generations reboot to Peacock. They got their biggest hits with Bel Air and The Best Man, so I'm sure they're open to shows with Black casts. I'm not sure if she knows that, but now would be a good time to reach out and pitch to them.

2 minutes ago, Chris B said:

I struggle with that show because some of the hosts can be very...crass and inarticulate, but I managed to make it through most of this and found it to be an interesting interview.

Another reason I am always hesitant to listen to these myself. If anyone feels like offering cliffnotes let us know, lol.

9 minutes ago, Chris B said:

I struggle with that show because some of the hosts can be very...crass and inarticulate, but I managed to make it through most of this and found it to be an interesting interview. I love hearing more about her 2016 return because the more I hear, the less sense it makes.

I don't understand how they reached out to her, hired her with no bible, then gave her one notice to start writing the show, yet still didn't give her at least a full year to prove herself. How do you knowingly hire someone who is telling you they haven't watched the show in 10 years and has ZERO story written and expect it to work right off the bat? It's just insane. Then to hear the extreme level of network interference is just bizarre to me. I feel like at NBC they just don't care because Days seems to tell whatever story they want to tell. It amazes me that there are still people behind the scenes nitpicking Y&R and GH. You'd think at this point they wouldn't care as long as the shows are underbudget. 

I feel like in her last stint she completely transformed the canvas and made the characters feel like their true selves. Had she been allowed to actually write, I do think it would've been a great show. I haven't enjoyed the show day-to-day since she left. Even in those early periods where not much was happening, it was just so nice seeing different characters interacting and talking like you know they should. I also think her choice of exits made perfect sense.

And I was hoping that she would give a bit more details on her brief Y&R run which I see we both are on the same page about. It brought me back as a regular viewer around being on and off post-Delia's death. 

 

So...it sounds interesting. At the time, I think we all were not sure if it was true about the short notice so the fact she is still saying that...wow...I guess it was true.

 

I admit that I'm curious about the interference and how bad it is. But I too am also picky when it comes to podcast and the like. Some interviewers can have a good vibe, or a good rhythm if it is a team. Others...meh. 

 

I wouldn't mind some Cliff Notes either. Or a good transcript.  

I'll try to give some cliffs:

- First of all, she said the show has been absolutely awful since 2006 and is a shell of itself. She doesn't feel like anything can improve the show because of the heavy interference of CBS.

- The full story of her getting hired is that Angelica McDaniel called for an interview. She wasn't looking for a soap job and was working on a documentary. When they met she gave vague ideas of what she'd like to do, but she told them she hadn't watched since she left in 2006 so she'd need time to prepare before creating a story bible. She was told she'd be able to have six months without interference to write the show she wanted to write.

They gave her two months to create a story bible, but Chuck Pratt suddenly quit when he got a primetime gig and she got a phone call saying she had to start in one day. She told them that was impossible, but they said she had to do it because they didn't have any other options and she already accepted the gig.

- The Devon/Cop/BLM inspired story was her first big story and when they shut it down, that set the tone for her stint. She really wanted to tell this story and when they decided she couldn't do it, it soured the experience for her. She mentioned that the network interference is extreme and Sony has completely turned over creative control to CBS so you literally just have to do as they say.

- She felt like Michael and Lauren were neglected so a focus of hers was giving them a story.

- She wanted to make Jill's heart attack a bigger storyline, but it was difficult to schedule Jess because she didn't want to work as much as they needed her.

- Tessa/Mariah was a big problem for the network. She had to fight for them to kiss, but the network was very upset and pushed back expecting a big backlash. In the end there was no backlash, but the network still wouldn't support the storyline. She said this was the story she was most proud to get on screen.

- She wanted to expand the male canvas because too many characters were related. She loved telling the Cane/Juliet storyline, but it was another storyline that had a lot of interference that she couldn't tell the way she wanted to.

- She had a great story idea for a "Who Shot Hilary" story, but they wouldn't approve the story. 

- She watched Y&R from day one and she was part of a writer development storyline and wrote a bible which got her hired. She wrote her bible based on what was airing and Bill Bell picked certain stories directly from her bible: the creation of Lauren and Dina's return both came from her bible. She had a great story for another family, but Bill Bell couldn't use it because he'd already written them off.

- When Michele Val Jean headwrote General Hospital, she was hired as a consultant. She was excited to work there, but Wendy Riche was fired and Jill Farren Phelps wanted to take the show in a different direction so she didn't last past her first 13 week cycle.

- She's written a one hour project she'd like for streaming and has a treatment for Generations as a one our series. The Generations reboot is something she mentioned she's really going to try to make happen. I feel like the conversation about Days on Peacock clicked with her because she brought this back up multiple times. She said that Days on Peacock is a blessing in disguise and it doesn't surprise her that their audience migrated. She said she feels Y&R would struggle the most if it went to streaming because the audience is so old.

- For Days, she said working with James Reilly was amazing. He was one of the nicest people she ever worked with. She hated the Sci Fi and outlandish stuff he did, but respected the mark he left on the show. She tried to ground the show more and she used Mike/Carrie as an example of why a writer should watch the show. She said that relationship was developed as a fluke when she noticed the actors had chemistry when watching the show.

- Some of the co-hosts kept bashing Brad Bell really harshly, but she wouldn't take the bait. Ultimately they asked if she'd be willing to write for the show and she said no, but that's all they could get out of her on that subject. Side Note: I get Brad is a mess, but it was cringe constantly saying such negative things about her, knowing she can't co-sign or comment on stuff like that.

Quote

She tried to ground the show more and she used Mike/Carrie as an example of why a writer should watch the show. She said that relationship was developed as a fluke when she noticed the actors had chemistry when watching the show.

Mike and Carrie were horrid and IMO I never felt they had any chemistry

So much interesting stuff.

Seems like Josh is happy to give CBS what they want. Hence the bland, dreary stories that don't really lead anywhere.

20 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

So much interesting stuff.

Seems like Josh is happy to give CBS what they want. Hence the bland, dreary stories that don't really lead anywhere.

She mentioned that they like dopplegangers, swapped babies, back from the dead and obvious tropes like that and she wasn't interested in telling those type of stories.

This all about covers why I don't think real substantive improvement is possible for American soaps while they're still bound to network television oversight vs. streaming. Everything is about catering to the whims of the network and/or what is perceived to be a shrinking, geriatric conservative audience (babies, white people, gimmicks). And Y&R isn't even doing gimmicks anymore. It's a zombie soap designed to be background noise.

Sussman's return is the last time I felt there was any creative vision for Y&R, and even then it was very messy, flawed and clearly deeply compromised (it's notable she apparently does not make mention of Mal Young, who played HW himself).

Edited January 19, 20232 yr by Vee

13 minutes ago, Vee said:

And Y&R isn't even doing gimmicks anymore. It's a zombie soap designed to be background noise.

Yep. I would call it “ambient,” but Stafford’s caterwauling breaks the spell.

I can’t imagine many people clamoring for that HW job. Yeah, it’s remunerative but it’s demanding even under the best circumstances + you’re being micromanaged? Hell naw. 

This is why were stuff with Griffith for the long haul sadly, he gives CBS what they want *sigh*

I don’t think what she says about the state of the show and how it’s managed is untrue, but SSM has never had a successful HW-ing stint ever.

This adoration from the internet community seemed to start with Jamey Giddens, and I still cannot pinpoint why exactly because none of it ever made for a cohesive show whenever she was at the helm. This is including her own show, Generations - which deserves praise for its significant black cast, but was largely a plodding and uninspired mess story-wise. At Days, ratings noticeably tanked during her stint after Reilly had taken it to #2, and again, the show was largely a plodding mess. She was never set up for success at Y&R, but I have a feeling many of her ideas would have sounded better on paper vs. how they were executed onscreen based on her actual track record.

3 hours ago, Chris B said:

I'll try to give some cliffs:

- First of all, she said the show has been absolutely awful since 2006 and is a shell of itself. She doesn't feel like anything can improve the show because of the heavy interference of CBS.

I wouldn't say all of it has been absolutely awful, but even her tenure was a freakin' slow-moving mess. Both CBS and Sony need to step back a bit. Even Jill Farren Phelps stated (and I believe her) that she was brought onto the soap⏤replacing exiting Maria Arena⏤to "modernize" the soap and make it "financially feasible" for CBS to continue producing. And she tried doing it. Unfortunately, that's not the canvas of The Young and the Restless, which even Sally Sussman alludes to (a.k.a. its older audience).

3 hours ago, Chris B said:

- The full story of her getting hired is that Angelica McDaniel called for an interview. She wasn't looking for a soap job and was working on a documentary. When they met she gave vague ideas of what she'd like to do, but she told them she hadn't watched since she left in 2006 so she'd need time to prepare before creating a story bible. She was told she'd be able to have six months without interference to write the show she wanted to write.

They gave her two months to create a story bible, but Chuck Pratt suddenly quit when he got a primetime gig and she got a phone call saying she had to start in one day. She told them that was impossible, but they said she had to do it because they didn't have any other options and she already accepted the gig.

This seems fine until you get to the second paragraph. One day to begin, even though I'm not a fan of Sussman's tenure, is simply unrealistic and unfair to her. I know news broke on September 13 that Sussman was "in-talks" to become head writer, and two days later it was announced she was in as head writer, because Pratt quit. HOWEVER, wasn't she up for the position in 2015, but Phelps wanted Pratt instead? So, surely, she should have had some ideas from those discussions one-year earlier, no?

3 hours ago, Chris B said:

- The Devon/Cop/BLM inspired story was her first big story and when they shut it down, that set the tone for her stint. She really wanted to tell this story and when they decided she couldn't do it, it soured the experience for her. She mentioned that the network interference is extreme and Sony has completely turned over creative control to CBS so you literally just have to do as they say.

Hmm... I don't know how much I believe this. We know CBS has had control since Phelps' hiring, and I'm sure there was some kind of story planned to be told, but I'm also wondering how this Black Lives Matter story would have come about in regards to Devon. She announced all of these plans in her November 2016 interview with TV Insider (her one and only interview while head writer/co-executive producer), and the only time she mentioned Devon was the mistake of making him Katherine's grandson, because, due to the inheritance, it "left him without drive, without a goal. What does he want? What does he strive for? I don’t think those questions were ever asked, so we need to fix that." The characters she mentioned were: Nikki, Victor, Jack, Ashley, Nick, Sharon, Billy & Victoria. She also mentioned: Jill, Lauren & Michael, and her intentions of undoing Jill & Lauren's connection. But not once did she mention anything regarding Devon beyond retconning his family, which she never ended up doing. Would retconning that story have brought on the planned storyline? Because, a lot of what she said she was going to do she did not end up doing. Was it CBS or was it her? I don't know, honestly.

That TV Insider interview felt very "I'm getting back at you for not keeping me in 2006, and for not bringing me on last year" and it was off-putting to me then and to me now.

3 hours ago, Chris B said:

- Tessa/Mariah was a big problem for the network. She had to fight for them to kiss, but the network was very upset and pushed back expecting a big backlash. In the end there was no backlash, but the network still wouldn't support the storyline. She said this was the story she was most proud to get on screen.

I don't buy this. Sorry. In her August 2017 interview with Daytime Confidential, she said: "The executives at CBS who oversee daytime enthusiastically approved this story; I think they saw the value and the freshness in the way it would be told. They did however note that they have a very conservative audience and this story may offend some people. CBS knows their audience very well, which could be the reason Y&R never did a story like this before, except in the early 70's when Bill Bell tried it and it was very negatively received." So, either they enthusiastically approved this story, despite noting they had some very conservative audiences and it may offend, or they were simply just upset and did not support the storyline? Which is the truth, Ms. Sussman? She even stated, in regards to CBS being skittish about the Mariah/Tessa storyline: "This is something I have no knowledge of. Now that I'm not with the show anymore, I have no idea how it will play out in the future." I know sometimes a person's storyline can change after time, out of not being afraid to speak, but these are two completely stories being told by someone who genuinely seemed done with daytime when she retired in 2017.

4 hours ago, Chris B said:

- She wanted to expand the male canvas because too many characters were related. She loved telling the Cane/Juliet storyline, but it was another storyline that had a lot of interference that she couldn't tell the way she wanted to.

That storyline sucked, any way. LOL.

4 hours ago, Chris B said:

- Some of the co-hosts kept bashing Brad Bell really harshly, but she wouldn't take the bait. Ultimately they asked if she'd be willing to write for the show and she said no, but that's all they could get out of her on that subject. Side Note: I get Brad is a mess, but it was cringe constantly saying such negative things about her, knowing she can't co-sign or comment on stuff like that.

I'm all for having an opinion, because Bradley Bell is inept at his job, but this seems like this was a targeted attempt for her to bash Bell. And that, to me, is unprofessional of them.

4 hours ago, Chris B said:

- She's written a one hour project she'd like for streaming and has a treatment for Generations as a one our series. The Generations reboot is something she mentioned she's really going to try to make happen. I feel like the conversation about Days on Peacock clicked with her because she brought this back up multiple times. She said that Days on Peacock is a blessing in disguise and it doesn't surprise her that their audience migrated. She said she feels Y&R would struggle the most if it went to streaming because the audience is so old.

Generations rebooting as some kind of limited-series could be... interesting, but I wonder how it'd work in the grand scheme of today's world. I really do. I just don't think Sussman has the chops to make a serial work like it would need to. This in not 1989 anymore.

2 hours ago, Vee said:

This all about covers why I don't think real substantive improvement is possible for American soaps while they're still bound to network television oversight vs. streaming. Everything is about catering to the whims of the network and/or what is perceived to be a shrinking, geriatric conservative audience (babies, white people, gimmicks). And Y&R isn't even doing gimmicks anymore. It's a zombie soap designed to be background noise.

One-hundred percent. Networks want what they want, and it isn't about a forward-moving, well-executed soap opera. The fact we can watch episodes from the 1970s, 1980s and even the 1990s, and it's more cutting-edge and forward-thinking than what has been airing the past five to ten years, says something about American daytime as a whole. And I don't think a single head writer/writing team currently can do what needs to be done, especially with the current state of the networks (and platforms) involved. They don't look outside of the daytime world to bring writers in. Yes, it's a difficult medium to write for, but they won't even attempt to look outside, especially since writers would want to change things.

The only time I think American daytime got it right in the past ten years is when All My Children went to TOLN. Marlene McPherson & Elizabeth Snyder did some fantastic story-telling with the trafficking storyline with Cassandra, and when The Young and the Restless played it years later, it read like a badly told bedtime story. McPherson & Snyder were able to tell a grittier and darker storyline than what CBS allowed them to tell. And the acting was one-hundred times better.