General Hospital: December 2022 Discussion Thread

[Vee]

If they were afraid they'd showcase her like Sonny, etc. and keep skewing story towards her. They resent her fanbase because they don't value her, but they also leverage it, hence pairing her with both OLTL stars as a retirement home for them. They know her fans are just happy to see her with anyone so they take advantage of it.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Vee

[Darn]

They're afraid in the sense that they can't get rid of her even though I think they'd be very happy to.

[j swift]

My opinion is very different.  I would surmise that if Becky Herbst looked at other actresses who have been employed for twenty-five years she would be grateful for her current storyline. 

Regardless of the lack of cohesion of the writing, how many other women her age on a soap are still portrayed as the object of lust for more than one man?  How many other ladies who have played the same part since they were in their early 20s are still driving story and aren't being pushed aside as a supportive voice for younger actresses?  How many characters whose scene partners have quit or been fired over the years are still getting new sets and having established names begin cast as part of their story.  

Look at Jackie Zeman who started in 1977, 25 years later in 2002 she had been backburnered numerous times, she was soon playing a great grandmother, and most of her plotlines were nostalgic nods to old loves like Roy or Scotty, who were arguably the focus of those stories.  In fact, the whole criticism that this current plot has more to do with Finn than Liz is an age-old truism on all soaps that men are usually the main character of most stories no matter who is the headwriter.

I'm not offended on behalf or Ms Herbst, an arguably serviceable actress who has never given an extraordinary performance, nor has she ever been reported as having other acting opportunities outside of GH, while maintaining more appearances per year for two decades than most secondary leading women in the 40s on the soaps.  And to those who don't like the story I would paraphrase from the memoir of Kim Zimmer who thought the clone story was ridiculous but was grateful for the exposure after so many years on GL, in order to remind us that actors want to be seen on TV, and they don't always care about whether a story makes sense.

Edited December 9, 2022 by j swift

[Vee]

They've tried twice!

I'm sure she's grateful. She's the breadwinner for her family and I'm sure she's doing very well. That doesn't change the fact that for the bulk of her tenure she has been poorly served in favor of actors who are often less deserving and can't deliver, now more than ever.

A comparison to Jackie Zeman doesn't work because for most of Jackie Zeman's first 20+ years on this show Bobbie had a ton of frontburner stories about her, focused on her and her many loves, building a family, fighting for her kids or losing them, etc. Liz has not been central to Liz's own storylines (when they exist) for the bulk of that by comparison.

It's only age-old in the last 20-25 years, though. Women are the backbone of this genre and women should remain the central point, in storyline and in love triangles. Male-centric love triangles rarely are done well - especially in the 21st century.

I think most of the longtime GH writing staff in the '90s and 2000s who penned her rape story would disagree. But again, compared to who? Eden McCoy? The two anonymous women playing Willow and Sasha, who I still can't tell apart? Nina, a poorly defined character played by a valiant and talented recast who has still not managed to create anything lasting? Laura Wright remains active and is still a forceful talent, but Carly has had tons more character-centric story than Liz. Same with Maura West and Ava Jerome. The disparity is the issue with those two actors.

I'm not some huge Liz fan and I never have been. But the fact is that when Herbst is given real material she always delivers, and her fanbase is strong. They don't use her because they resent not being able to get rid of her, and when they do use her it's to park OLTL stars - all of whom are unpopular, all of whom cannot deliver ratings - with her to keep them employed, because being paired with Herbst is perceived as giving her scene partners job security with the audience. Given that implicit understanding, and given the wealth of material to draw on and new characters you can introduce or reintroduce to mix up with other new people (Liz's sister, parents, etc), why not actually use her in a story with them as her support, since they know where the meat and potatoes of the audience support goes?

Men came in and out of Bobbie Spencer's life, because Jackie Zeman and Bobbie were the draw in her heyday. They knew that then. The reason the same isn't true of Liz is not because Jackie (who I love) is a better actress than Herbst, it is because the priorities at GH have changed, narrowed and they're no longer focused on delivering for the longtime audience, they're focused on delivering for themselves and their narrow set of priorities. This isn't a new problem, it's been here since at least Guza's second residency and kept getting worse.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Vee

[AbcNbc247]

Sprina 

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It's so good. Literally the only problem is the pacing

[j swift]

@Vee I appreciate your post as I value this dialogue as an outlet for our reactions to the show.

I felt compelled to respond (not to @vee in specific), but to the general discussion about this SOD critique because I think that maintaining Liz's viability as a sexual being with some agency over her relationships is evidence against the idea that the production or writing teams feels resentful toward the actress.  I fail to understand the logic that writing and marketing a plot about the backstory of a long term character is somehow an affront to Becky.  We may not find this mystery compelling, but they are using history to try to entertain long term viewers.  The alternative of sidelining or ignoring the long held questions about how Liz came to live in Port Charles seem much more like evidence that GH would rather disregard Liz than what I am watching on TV this week.

Edited December 10, 2022 by j swift

[Vee]

I mean, again, they've tried to fire her twice and now the only time she gets story is when it's used to service the unpopular OLTL stars. I feel like that is enough evidence. My point now is, if they know they can't fire her and they use her fanbase to leverage their favorites, why not let their favorites tag along for a meaty enough story focusing on her? Because what they actually did here with Liz and the answers you mention only played out for about 3 days. The crux of the secret and its details remain about Finn/Michael Easton and his offscreen backstory, rendered in a truly cheap and embarrassing flashback.

If we want to suggest that a female remaining sexually viable on the show is proof they value her, we should look at Alexis. Alexis still has affairs or flings on this show from time to time that play out largely as subplots; does she have a central story? Lucy gets background stuff, but is she a major character? They don't have to be turned all the way into Emily McLaughlin's Jessie Brewer to be valued less.

[j swift]

On a sidenote, can we talk about how many mental hospitals there are in the Port Charles vicinity?

For a town with only one hotel and diner, they have Ferncliff and D'Archam (no need to be a Batman fan to know that reference).  There's a psych unit at GH, and The Misgavige Center where Nina recovered (arguably a neurological center not a mental hospital, but again the reference is obvious).

It's odd that it is easier to get group therapy than a hot dog in this shipping town.

[Joseph]

There's so much to Elizabeth, Rebecca deserves so much more, if it wasn't the fact she's kinda Old for the role I really wish she would've taken the role of Abigail Devereaux on DOOL when they offered it to her in 2016, if the others got to be nominated, She probably would've already Won An Emmy or Two

[Joseph]

Oh God it's official even I am going on this Sprina thing

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I always thought those things were so lame but here I am rooting for them

[Liberty City]

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Why is Finn injected into every single damn storyline? Is he the male equivalent of Carly?

But I am loving Alley Mills' Heather more than I thought I would... especially opposite Jon Lindstrom's Ryan!

[dragonflies]

Cause Easton is Frank's pet, he has to use Liz/Becky and others to prop him 

[AbcNbc247]

Which is why I sometimes don't understand why Becky hasn't just said "Screw it" and walked.

I mean, I get that a paycheck is a paycheck, but the treatment is just ridiculous. And it keeps happening again and again. I expect another OLTL friend to show up and play a new character for Liz to be with if she and Finn ever break up.

[dragonflies]

Might be cause she has kids and I don't know what her hubby does for a living, I don't think he is acting anymore 

[titan1978]

She is a well paid actress past the age of 40 who is on one of the last 3 network soaps.  While not as valued as she should be, using her to prop the OLTL refugees and her kids have given her more substantial material than Sam has seen in years.  Do I think that kind of a team player with her fanbase should be used the way she is-no.  I’m sure she has times when she isn’t happy with the story.  But I can see why she would stay.

I can’t remember who wanted her out, I only remember when JFP fired her and then had to reverse course.  Which I assumed back then was 100% one of her budget cuts of a character that she finds boring.  The fact that they said it was due to lack of story and then suddenly they had story for her made me think back then that it wasn’t Guza.  Someone remind me of the second time they tried to fire her?

Along those lines- does anyone know the bts reasons why the show stopped capitalizing on the Liz/Jason/Sam stuff?  It had a rabid fanbase and they just dropped it.  Soaps don’t usually do that unless something happened.

Edited December 10, 2022 by titan1978