B&B November 2022 Discussion Thread

[ranger1rg]

Why the need for Caucasian?

[tiofmso]

So from the point of view of someone that hasn’t seen the show in 6-7 years here are some thoughts.

-New Thomas is shady. I have no clue why the Spencer’s hate him (aside from Liam mentioning a dead baby), but his goatee makes him look like he’s up to something.

-I like new Hope. I didn’t think she’d have two kids including what looked like a 9 year old, but that was a fun surprise.

-Is Zende the same Zende that was around as an intern years ago or a different actor? He looks different but it could just be me

-Given Liam and Hope are married I have to assume Steffy is with Wyatt?

These are just random thoughts i’m throwing onto the internet. I went into the episode blind without looking anything up. The show was easy to follow and get into the groove of, I might have to keep up.

[dragonflies]

NO offense Ranger but you literally complain about everything, hard to take you seriously lol!!

[janea4old]

Remember the older Caroline Spencer (Dollar Bill's sister), who was Ridge's wife many years ago.  Then there was her niece, the younger Caroline Spencer (played by Linsey Godfrey). 
**** This is about the *younger* Caroline. She had been married to Rick Forrester.  They later divorced.
Ridge had been pushed out of a helicopter which Bill had arranged, and he later on had long term head trauma that disrupted his functioning so that he was having trouble drawing.  Caroline got into an accident and hurt her foot. (the actress did, so they wrote it into the story). Caroline and Ridge helped each other through these things, he learned to draw again, she learned to walk again, and they fell in love during all that, and then they got married. That may have begun around the time you stopped watching. 

Ridge and Caroline had a difference of viewpoint. She wanted to have children, but he didn't. He thought that he should leave her so that she could have children with someone else, but he still loved her and wanted to be with her. She was upset, but she hadn't decided to divorce Ridge.  She borrowed a bunch of someone else's anxiety pills so that she could forget and went somewhere (maybe a hotel?) to take them and have a good cry.  She had taken way too many pills to be coherent. 

Thomas somehow found out where Caroline was and went to see her to cheer her up, but she didn't really remember or understand what was happening.  She woke up the next morning to find herself in bed with Thomas and he let her know they had "made love" or "had sex". She did not remember what happened, nor would she have agreed to that.  She was aghast.  Having watched it myself, in my opinion, Thomas knew she was unable to consent, and he took advantage of the situation, and it was rape.  It was rape that viewers saw on camera, but Brad Bell later made a statement in an interview that it wasn't rape.  Ridge and Caroline reconciled.

ANYWAYS .... Caroline discovered she was pregnant. At some point, either before or after she knew she was pregnant, she eventually told Ridge what had happened, that Thomas had had sex with her without her consent. Ridge had clarified that he'd had a vasectomy years before, so the bio-father must have been Thomas.  Ridge was upset at what Thomas had done. Ridge agreed to be the child's father and raise the child as his own, which is what Caroline wanted too, and they hid all this from everyone including Thomas. The child was born and they named him Douglas, after the late Stephanie Douglas Forrester, and Ridge loved him.  All went well at first, with everyone believing that Douglas was Ridge's son.  Later on ...  I don't remember what happened exactly in what order ... but eventually Ridge and Caroline divorced ... and eventually and the reveal came out to the families that Thomas was Douglas' biological father. 

At some point Caroline left town with Douglas to go live on the east coast or someplace far from LA.  There was some convoluted stuff and Caroline considered having a relationship with Thomas for Douglas' sake or whatever.  Bill did something to arrange it so that Thomas would think that Caroline was terminally ill, so that Thomas would want to go live with her. During a visit to LA,  Caroline agreed to Bill's subterfuge and played the part, but she later told Thomas the truth offscreen. Caroline still lived out of town but visited LA on a few rare occasions, but was basically gone from the show.  Supposedly she and Thomas were finally having an offscreen relationship while living out of town.

Then the show wrote in a one-sentence announcement where everyone learned that Caroline had died in the other city from a sudden medical condition like a blood clot or something.  Thomas returned to LA with Douglas.

Thomas became obsessed with Hope and has wanted her for several years.

Hope was married to Liam. Meanwhile Steffy was a single mom of Steffy&Liam's daughter Kelly.  She wanted to adopt a baby girl so as to give Kelly a sister. Steffy would be adopting as a single mom.
Hope&Liam had a baby named Beth, who was believed to have died at birth.
What actually happened was someone had arranged a baby switch so as to steal Beth and sell her to an illegal adoption placement scheme. Steffy ended up unknowingly adopting Beth and named her Phoebe after Steffy's dead twin sister. Meanwhile Hope and Liam grieved the loss of their baby Beth.  Hope went through hell with the grieving. This grieving went on for several months.

Thomas found out about the baby switch (after it happened) but he kept silent, because he wished for Hope's marriage to Liam to implode.  That's the reference in the recent episode you saw, where someone said that Thomas allowed Hope to believe her baby was dead. Yeah he knew Beth was alive but he kept the secret from Hope, and allowed her to continue grieving.

At some point, Liam and Hope separated and Hope was going to marry Thomas. Hope became Douglas' adoptive mother.

Douglas is a smart child. While still very young (maybe 4?), he somehow learned that Steffy's baby Phoebe was actually Hope's baby Beth.  Thomas learned that Douglas had found out. Thomas yelled at Douglas to keep silent about it.  Douglas decided to tell the truth anyhow and that's how it was revealed.  Hope got her baby Beth back.  

Hope and Liam reconciled. Hope is still Douglas' adoptive mother. She was given full custody of Douglas. Douglas lives with Liam and Hope and little Beth as a family.  Douglas's bio-mother Caroline Spencer was Liam's first cousin.

Thomas had been building a "bond" with Hope while working on the fashion line, and began to convince her that he is a good person and whatever.  Then, in recent weeks, Thomas began pushing for visitation with Douglas. This was agreed to.  The visitations happened occasionally and they worked okay.

A couple of weeks ago, Thomas insisted that Douglas live at the Forrester mansion with Hope having visitation.  And Douglas doesn't see her at her home. Hope has to come to the Forrester mansion to see Douglas. None of this was legally arranged. Thomas simply insisted on it and Hope acquiesced. This is puzzling to Liam!

Basically, Thomas has a fantasy family of him, Hope, and Douglas living together happily ever after and he does whatever he can to nudge/manipulate things in that direction.  And Hope is naive and can't see it.  She wants to believe in the best in people.  Meanwhile the viewers are shown the fantasies that Thomas is having in his mind.

There have been other incidents and plots and fantasies that Thomas has been a part of, but that's too much to write here.  One of them involved a mannequin that looked like Hope... long story.

Edited November 5, 2022 by janea4old

[janea4old]

Updating 

Update on Steffy:  She got out of the triangle nonsense that had been Hope/Liam/Steffy, and Liam/Steffy/Wyatt. She made a statement: "I choose me".  She chose to be a confident single woman raising her daughter Kelly.  She shares custody of Kelly with Liam but she and Liam are just friends.  She became a happy single woman.  One day she got into a motorcycle accident.  The doctor at the hospital was named Dr. John Finnegan, but everyone calls him "Finn".  Steffy and Finn fell in love and were in a great relationship and then Steffy got pregnant.   Finn proposed and Steffy said yes.

Finn is adopted. Supposedly his adoptive parents are Jack Finnegan and Dr. Li Finnegan.  On Steffy and Finn's wedding day, Sheila Carter crashed the wedding and announced that she is Finn's biological mother.  The truth came out that Jack Finnegan is Finn's real father, not just his adoptive father.  Jack had an affair with Sheila and they conceived Finn.  All of this happened offscreen and is a retcon to Sheila's past.  It was arranged that Jack learn about this baby available for adoption, so that he and his wife Li could adopt Sheila's baby. ***  Finn's adoptive mother Li never had any idea that Jack was Finn's biofather or that he had an affair with Sheila.  All of this came out in the days following Steffy and Finn's wedding.

*** [ inserting an edit to clarify: Jack always knew he was Finn's biological father. He arranged the adoption, but pretended that he didn't know it was his own child.  His wife Li never knew until the reveal after Steffy's wedding.]

Finn has a problematic biomother Sheila. But Finn himself seems to have no flaws. He loves Steffy and is devoted to her.  Steffy and Finn's baby is a son named "Hayes".  They named him after Steffy's mother Taylor Hayes. (which is weird because Hayes is the last name of one of Taylor's husbands, but whatever).

It's really nice for Steffy to be in a good marriage with no triangle!

After the reveal, Steffy (and everyone else) of course wanted nothing to do with Sheila.  Finn tried to get to know Sheila and she fooled him a little, but not a lot. Sheila did various schemes to try to get access to Finn and baby Hayes. 

One of Sheila's schemes was to break up Brooke and Ridge, and to bring Ridge to Taylor -- Sheila helped Taylor, so as to befriend Taylor, with the goal of gaining access to their mutual grandson Hayes.  Sheila did a specific nefarious thing that set this all off.   Thomas learned what Sheila did but didn't tell anyone he knew. Thomas doesn't like Brooke because Brooke distrusts Thomas being with Hope.  He also wanted his parents Taylor and Ridge back together.   Sheila's scheme went on for months but Thomas never let on.  It caused a lot of stress and anguish to Brooke but he didn't care.  He still hasn't told anyone that he knew.

Meanwhile, Steffy separately found out about Sheila's scheming, and Steffy immediately went to confront her. Shelia shot Steffy with a gun! Just then, Finn arrived and he got caught in the gunfire!.  Sheila left them both near death on the ground, and fled the scene.   There is a lot more that happened and Finn was taken elsewhere by his mother Li to recover (long story).  Steffy and Finn both recovered eventually and were reunited. Sheila faked her death so that the police would stop looking for her.  Sheila wears disguises and lives with Deacon who is protecting her.

Steffy has stood by her brother Thomas and has defended him.  But in recent days she has wondered if there is something a bit "off" about him.  She kind of wonders, but then goes back to defending him because she wants to believe he is okay.

Edited November 5, 2022 by janea4old

[Soapfan8]

Cause paris eats these girls on bold up

[janea4old]

Yes Zende who was born in Africa of African parents, and adopted by Kristen Forrester and her husband Antonio Dominguez.  Yes he was an intern at Forrester, then left to work at Forrester's Paris office. The character was offcanvas for a while. When he returned to LA, the role was cast with a different actor. 

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Rome Flynn (previous Zende)  and  Delon de Metz (current Zende)

Edited November 5, 2022 by janea4old

[I Am A Swede]

Wow, can it be??  Why yes, I do believe we have here a perfect example of a pot calling a kettle black

[cassadine1991]

Rome Flynn is still the best Zende 

[dragonflies]

 

Awww no problem, but like was said, pot meet kettle. 

and I stand by what I said you literally complain about everything. Why watch LMAO. It makes it hard to take anyone seriously 

LMAO truth! 

Edited November 4, 2022 by dragonflies

[janea4old]

I already posted in my other reply to you about some of why the Spencers hate Thomas. (I apologize for my excessive details.)

Something else happened that is relevant to the Hope/Thomas situation ...

A while back, Douglas was shown with a toy that could change people's voices to sound like someone else's voice.

Thomas was holding a knife to cut an apple in the kitchen.  Brooke entered the room.  Depending on your point of view, you may or may not have perceived Thomas as subtly (but not directly) behaving menacingly with the knife during that scene.  Not just the viewers. Different characters discussing this scene have perceived it in different ways.  It was a subtle insidious energy and not a direct threat, but very concerning to Brooke.  Brooke felt alerted and said she was concerned about Douglas' safety.  Brooke was concerned but she never reported this to the authorities.

Thomas did something that nobody but the viewers know about...  He made an anonymous phonecall to CPS (Child Protective Services) claiming that Thomas was a danger to Douglas, and the reason was  waving the knife around threateningly, or something like that.
Thomas used the voice-changing-device-toy to change  Thomas' voice into Brooke's voice, and made a recording.  He apparently set things up so that if CPS checked their records for a recording of the phonecall, they would listen and hear Brooke's voice. 

I'm not sure if the original phonecall to CPS had Thomas's voice and then he may have bribed a CPS employee to substitute the recording. Or maybe the original phonecall was made using the device so that CPS *only* had Brooke's voice. The technology details are ridiculous and unclear, but it doesn't matter. 

Either way, Thomas set it up to make it look like Brooke reported him. Then Ridge and Thomas asked a friend who works for CPS to tell them who made the anonymous phonecall.  CPS isn't allowed to disclose who makes reports, but this employee broke the rules and played the recording for Ridge and Thomas, which had Brooke's voice.

Thomas did this to make Brooke look bad to Ridge or something.  Ridge tells himself the rationale that he cannot tell Brooke that he got the CPS employee to play the recording -- because that could cause the CPS employee to lose his job.  Nobody but Ridge, Thomas, and the CPS employee know about the recording.

Ridge got mad at Brooke and demanded that she confess what she did.  But of course Ridge didn't tell Brooke what he thinks she did. He simply said "I know what you did and I demand that you confess it" or something like that.  Brooke has no clue what this about (STUPID STORYLINE) -- so of course she can't confess to whatever it is.   Brooke wouldn't/couldn't tell Ridge anything, so Ridge got mad at her, and then Ridge broke up with Brooke and slept with Taylor.

And nobody but the viewers know that Thomas engineered the whole mess.

This is all really stupid, I know.  But it's a current central storyline.  
Thomas was using nefarious scheming to break up Ridge and Brooke, because he wanted Ridge to be with Taylor. 
This is in contrast to Steffy who was using normal means to encourage Ridge and Taylor to be together.

Meanwhile Hope has no clue that Thomas would mess with Douglas' situation in this way.

Fyi, Taylor was recast with Krista Allen who looks remarkably like Hunter Tylo used to look.  Krista is doing a really great job.

Edited November 5, 2022 by janea4old

[Soapfan8]

So out of Taylor’s Brooke’s Hope and Steffys current actress which actress do you all think is strongest? And also maybe weakest

[ranger1rg]

You do know you don't have to read my posts, right? Try to learn how these boards work.

You can scroll on by my posts any time. You know that, right?

I'll be reading yours -- I enjoy laughing at ridiculous comments.

Then you should have said, "Except for Paris...."

 

LMAO   The best part of your post is "No offense...," as if that means you're not insulting me.

That's OK. I don't take you seriously either.

[Planet Soap]

exactly how small is Liam & Hope's house.

[tiofmso]

@janea4old Thank you so much for your extremely detailed write-ups. They were an incredible help, you explained everything amazingly.

Steffy being married to Sheila’s son is not something I expected, but I dig it.

Edit: Please do not apologise for the excessive detail. It was incredibly written and got me up to speed on everything going on.

Thank you for going to such an amazing effort to get this random guy across the world up to speed.

Edited November 5, 2022 by tiofmso