in the Culliton thread, @Vee brought up the often repeated stories about character creation are sometimes hard to pin down.  Did Marland have Carly in his ATWT bible?  Did Labine intend Carly to be Bobbie’s lost child on GH?  Which made me think- sometimes creation doesn’t end up defining a character.

I know Marland created Luke.  But to me, the Luke that was defined by PFS (the rape, the mob stuff, the Left Handed Boy and his devotion to Laura) is Luke more than Marland’s version, and who Tony Geary played even when he came back.  And while Marland did not create Laura, it would be impossible to divorce her from the impulsive and damaged girl looking for love and family that he made her.

Bell’s soaps had such a singular vision that even if there was character evolution (Jill, Victor, Lauren), they still felt like the same characters, they had their DNA pretty much intact from early stories to later tales.

Labine may have created Carly, but she is a Guza character through and through.

Thoughts?

Edited August 20, 20214 yr by titan1978

Ross Marler of Guiding Light comes to mind. Created by the Dobsons as an ambitious, slightly devious character to contrast with his brother Justin.

Under Marland he softened and over the years became the good guy.

Did the Dobsons have any plans for Ross to clean up his act?

1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

in the Culliton thread, @Vee brought up the often repeated stories about character creation are sometimes hard to pin down.  Did Marland have Carly in his bible.  Did Labine intend Carly to be Bobbie’s lost child?  Which made me think- sometimes creation doesn’t end up defining a character.

I know Marland created Luke.  But to me, the Luke that was defined by PFS (the rape, the mob stuff, the Left Handed Boy and his devotion to Laura) is Luke more than Marland’s version, and who Tony Geary played even when he came back.  And while Marland did not create Laura, it would be impossible to divorce her from the impulsive and damaged girl looking for love and family that he made her.

Bell’s soaps had such a singular vision that even if there was character evolution (Jill, Victor, Lauren), they still felt like the same characters, they had their DNA pretty much intact from early stories to later tales.

Labine may have created Carly, but she is a Guza character through and through.

Thoughts?

Bell was lucky to have a protege in Kay Alden who carried things on. Though I don't always think she got things right character wise. However some of his later creations such as Sharon and Phyllis are not the vision Bell had for them. Sharon especially. From everything I have heard post 2006 (and in fact starting more around 2003) Sharon is a shell of the character she started out as. 

1 hour ago, will81 said:

Bell was lucky to have a protege in Kay Alden who carried things on. Though I don't always think she got things right character wise. However some of his later creations such as Sharon and Phyllis are not the vision Bell had for them. Sharon especially. From everything I have heard post 2006 (and in fact starting more around 2003) Sharon is a shell of the character she started out as. 

Oh no doubt.  I was referring to their cores being intact while Bell/Alden were there.  That singular vision.  They created and then shepherded them.  Anything that has happened since (including some of the stuff under Alden/Smith) is not the same show.

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Ross Marler of Guiding Light comes to mind. Created by the Dobsons as an ambitious, slightly devious character to contrast with his brother Justin.

Under Marland he softened and over the years became the good guy.

Did the Dobsons have any plans for Ross to clean up his act?

Ross is a great example.  Marland’s version is the one that seemed to take hold and continue to evolve from his stories.

Viki from OLTL is an interesting case.  I think that she is the same person as created by Nixon, especially since Nixon started the DID storyline.  The stories may not have always fit her well, but her characterization and core are pretty consistent.

4 hours ago, titan1978 said:

in the Culliton thread, @Vee brought up the often repeated stories about character creation are sometimes hard to pin down.  Did Marland have Carly in his ATWT bible?  Did Labine intend Carly to be Bobbie’s lost child on GH?  Which made me think- sometimes creation doesn’t end up defining a character.

I know Marland created Luke.  But to me, the Luke that was defined by PFS (the rape, the mob stuff, the Left Handed Boy and his devotion to Laura) is Luke more than Marland’s version, and who Tony Geary played even when he came back.  And while Marland did not create Laura, it would be impossible to divorce her from the impulsive and damaged girl looking for love and family that he made her.

Bell’s soaps had such a singular vision that even if there was character evolution (Jill, Victor, Lauren), they still felt like the same characters, they had their DNA pretty much intact from early stories to later tales.

Labine may have created Carly, but she is a Guza character through and through.

Thoughts?

Carly didn't appear until after Guza took over correct?  I do believe Carly was always meant to be Bobbie's child though.  It was pretty clear even from her first scenes, IMO.  Obviously, she is a Guza character, but I do think Claire outlined things like Carly/Bobbie and even Clink/Boom.  Perhaps not the actual explosion, but the death of Lily as the end of the story. 

Guza's reputation has dined on "Clink/Boom" for decades, and I believe it was him who opted to pair Jax with Brenda and not Lois. I can't believe that story turn was in Labine's notes. But I can believe Carly being Bobbie's daughter and stealing Tony was.

I know it's part of soap lore that Felicia Gallant was at least partially based on writer Robert Soderberg's friend Jacqueline Susann. But I'm sure Robert didn't figure that Felicia would evolve into more of a warmhearted, loving friend, mother and wife (think the transition from Patrick Dennis' Auntie Mame to Lawrence and Lee's Auntie Mame). Felicia's evolution was carried out by many writers including ... Richard Culliton.

1 hour ago, Vee said:

Guza's reputation has dined on "Clink/Boom" for decades, and I believe it was him who opted to pair Jax with Brenda and not Lois. I can't believe that story turn was in Labine's notes. But I can believe Carly being Bobbie's daughter and stealing Tony was.

Jax was meant for Lois, but Rena didn't re-sign so I believe that was Guza with the Jax/Brenda stuff.  That's why I think Guza tended to heavily favor them over Sonny/Brenda.  I don't think the actual "Clink/Boom" was Labine, but I do think the idea of Lily dying tragically was. 

I just remember SB's Carly being super interested in Bobbie from her first scene.  Maybe even reading a newspaper clipping about her or something?

Edited August 20, 20214 yr by carolineg

Another World.

Rachel

Under Nixon/Cenedella she was the villian until Lemay decided to reform the character.

Mary Matthews.

Lemay decided to change a character firmly established from Irna Phillips through to Nixon/Cenedella.

12 hours ago, Paul Raven said:Another World.

Rachel

Under Nixon/Cenedella she was the villian until Lemay decided to reform the character.

Would anyone who started watching AW after Lemay evolved Rachel even recognize Robin Strasser’s version?  Especially once Iris arrives and Steve and Alice are written out.

I would be shocked if Clink/Boom wasn’t Guza.  He for sure pivoted Jax away from Lois towards Brenda.

 

Bo Brady

Though he was introduced under Margaret DePriest and Sheri Anderson, a lot of people have said that the character that eventually became Bo was first outlined by Pat Falken Smith. Under her, the character's name was Marcus. 

1 hour ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Bo Brady

Though he was introduced under Margaret DePriest and Sheri Anderson, a lot of people have said that the character that eventually became Bo was first outlined by Pat Falken Smith. Under her, the character's name was Marcus. 

And Marcus was slated for Melissa.

In light of recent discussions in the Classic Days thread it could be that the projected Brady siblings had names/characters changed to avoid lawsuits from PFS.

 

As The World Turns

Kim

Irna Phillips final character creation, she envisioned her as a strong, independent woman who would raise her child from an affair alone and with no apologies. She was another projection of Irna herself. When she was fired from ATWT,the Soderbergs turned Kim into the long suffering heroine,who was battered by unfortunate circumstances,

4 hours ago, titan1978 said:

Would anyone who started watching AW after Lemay evolved Rachel even recognize Robin Strasser’s version?  Especially once Iris arrives and Steve and Alice are written out.

I would be shocked if Clink/Boom wasn’t Guza.  He for sure pivoted Jax away from Lois towards Brenda.

 

Only because Rena left.  IR and RS had okay chemistry. I don't think Ingo even screen tested with Vanessa.  Jax/Brenda was just a good accident.  Clink/Boom was Guza, but I do think Claire had an arc for Lily that did include a tragic death.  I just don't think it was going to be a Godfather car bomb rip off. 

19 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

And Marcus was slated for Melissa.

In light of recent discussions in the Classic Days thread it could be that the projected Brady siblings had names/characters changed to avoid lawsuits from PFS.

 

As The World Turns

Kim

Irna Phillips final character creation, she envisioned her as a strong, independent woman who would raise her child from an affair alone and with no apologies. She was another projection of Irna herself. When she was fired from ATWT,the Soderbergs turned Kim into the long suffering heroine,who was battered by unfortunate circumstances,

That makes a lot of sense as far as PFS and DAYS.

At least Kim maintained a little bit of an edge, some of that independent spirit.  She wasn’t as put upon as Emma Snyder.  Or Lily even.  I liked that Margo also kept her sarcasm and some of her integral personality traits.

All my Children:

Gillian was created by Lorraine Broderick as a jet setter, was perceptive and scheme.  Mctavish paired her with Ryan and made her ditzy.

Guiding Light:

From what I read in synopsis, it sounds like Holly became more a heroine under the Debson's.  I recall once how the original actress playing Holly didn't like the changes to the character..explaining that Holly would have seen through Rita's attempts to get Ed for herself...which I agree with.

Marland made Holly even more passive, while Long made her more confident and sexy.  When Curlee wrote her, she focused more on Holly's neuroses and less on being sexy/confident.