2 hours ago, Videnbas said:

I actually saw it the opposite way - with the introduction of the Spectras (which coincided with the phasing out of the Logans), the show *found* its heart. I saw a much warmer camaraderie and more solid family loyalty with the original Spectra core gang (Sally, Macy, Saul, Darla) than I ever did with the Logans. The Logans had just as much internal conflict as the Forresters in those early days (Donna flirting with Rocco while setting him up with Katie, Grandma and Beth at odds over Beth's affair with Eric, the family basically being divided into two opposing camps over Stephen's return, and eventually Brooke's relationship with her mother's "true love"). Besides, the "close Logan family" was not sustainable anyway because we were introduced to them at a point in time when all the kids were about to "leave the nest". That was bound to change the dynamic. 

I agree the show got more dynamic around 1989. And yes, out of all the characters, Stephanie is the one that has truly had a "negative" character development. She started out incredibly complex and then gradually started *losing* layers. Her subtlety in the early years was a joy to watch. At the end, she was a shadow of her former self.

Who do you think had the best character development?

16 minutes ago, Soapfan8 said:

Who do you think had the best character development?

Wow, that's a great question!

Caroline started out as an ingénue, and gradually developed more layers and shades of grey as her initial idealism clashed with the real world and her own real emotions.

Sally started out as a two-dimensional over-the-top villain, but the longer she was on the show, the more layers started showing. We got to see her humorous side, her affection for her employees, her love for her daughter, her vulnerability to Clarke, and so on. The on screen development of her close relationship with Macy was also beautifully done.

46 minutes ago, Videnbas said:

Wow, that's a great question!

Caroline started out as an ingénue, and gradually developed more layers and shades of grey as her initial idealism clashed with the real world and her own real emotions.

Sally started out as a two-dimensional over-the-top villain, but the longer she was on the show, the more layers started showing. We got to see her humorous side, her affection for her employees, her love for her daughter, her vulnerability to Clarke, and so on. The on screen development of her close relationship with Macy was also beautifully done.

I couldn't agree more about Sally.

 

As for Caroline: I also really liked that she had a career in journalism. Sure, she only got the chance due to daddy, but it added something valuable to the character for the couple of months where they heavily used Eye on Fashion as well as Valerie as her sidekick. This was of course still in the days where Brooke has a respectable career as a chemist. For the past 10 years Brooke has been walking around LA minding everyone's business but no longer seems to be nvolved with real business which is a shame.

Sally's arrival was a turning point for B&B. She breathed new life into the show. The character could have easily been a one-dimensional villainess or solely comic relief but it was the combination of Bill Bell's writing and Darlene Conley's acting that made the character complex and layered. Building a business and family around Sally was genius.

As for Stephanie, Bill Bell wrote her as a Jennifer/Katherine/Vanessa hybrid. Bradley turned Stephanie into a female Victor.

8 hours ago, sheilaforever said:

I couldn't agree more about Sally.

 

As for Caroline: I also really liked that she had a career in journalism. Sure, she only got the chance due to daddy, but it added something valuable to the character for the couple of months where they heavily used Eye on Fashion as well as Valerie as her sidekick. This was of course still in the days where Brooke has a respectable career as a chemist. For the past 10 years Brooke has been walking around LA minding everyone's business but no longer seems to be nvolved with real business which is a shame.

I think Brooke is another example of negative character development. She used to have a whole professional side to her character that has been completely lost in later years.

On 5/3/2022 at 9:43 PM, kalbir said:

As for Stephanie, Bill Bell wrote her as a Jennifer/Katherine/Vanessa hybrid. Bradley turned Stephanie into a female Victor.

William J. Bell really set some amazing groundwork for the character of Stephanie, and Bradley Bell went in and completely undid it all. Stephanie would've never set Brooke up to be raped (knowingly or not). Stephanie was more conniving with her tongue and methodical than Bradley made her out to be.

Eric was also ruined by Brad. I have never seen another soap patriarch treated like this. What is next? He ends up marrying a pornstar?

Thank God we never got to see the Lolita storyline. 

Sophisticated Stephanie became a mean Sally Spectra who believed that she was Stefano Dimera.

The less said about Brooke the better.

9 minutes ago, SAPOUNOPERA said:

Eric was also ruined by Brad. I have never seen another soap patriarch treated like this. What is next? He ends up marrying a pornstar?

Thank God we never got to see the Lolita storyline. 

Sophisticated Stephanie became a mean Sally Spectra who believed that she was Stefano Dimera.

The less said about Brooke the better.

Eric comes off as such a dope. He’s been married like 5 times and comes off looking foolish with each passing marriage. Stephanie must have been in charge of the finances in the early years of FC, otherwise I don’t know how they would have managed to hold onto the business.

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Eric comes off as such a dope. He’s been married like 5 times and comes off looking foolish with each passing marriage. Stephanie must have been in charge of the finances in the early years of FC, otherwise I don’t know how they would have managed to hold onto the business.

I do recall it mentioned that money from her family bankrolled the business.  I always figured she handled the business aspect while Eric handled the creative.

In regards to their kids:

Thorne usually handled the supply chain and orders/logistics..I assume.

Ridge was a designer and had a sexual vibe to his designs that clashed with Eric's more timeless approach.

Felicia was the free spirit, whose designs didn't fit at Forrester's..and her working at Spectra was never developed.  Rebel daughter working for the enemy.

Kristen was a designer, but I often thought she only went into that because of her father..not because she had the talent or passion.  I always thought she would have worked better as a model/spokesperson.

 

And out of all the Logans, Donna made the most sense being in the fashion world with her modeling, and later getting a taste of the publishing world.  I have a feeling her getting an offer to work at Spencer Publications in early 1991 by Bill (done to stick it to Margo) would have been pursued had the original Donna opted to renew her contract.

I often have thought Heather Tom should have been Donna instead of Katie.  In fact, a lot of Katie's stories in the 2000s/2010s seemed to be more Donna stories (going by the foundation laid out by Bill Bell in the early years)

28 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I do recall it mentioned that money from her family bankrolled the business.  I always figured she handled the business aspect while Eric handled the creative.

In regards to their kids:

Thorne usually handled the supply chain and orders/logistics..I assume.

Ridge was a designer and had a sexual vibe to his designs that clashed with Eric's more timeless approach.

Felicia was the free spirit, whose designs didn't fit at Forrester's..and her working at Spectra was never developed.  Rebel daughter working for the enemy.

Kristen was a designer, but I often thought she only went into that because of her father..not because she had the talent or passion.  I always thought she would have worked better as a model/spokesperson.

 

And out of all the Logans, Donna made the most sense being in the fashion world with her modeling, and later getting a taste of the publishing world.  I have a feeling her getting an offer to work at Spencer Publications in early 1991 by Bill (done to stick it to Margo) would have been pursued had the original Donna opted to renew her contract.

I often have thought Heather Tom should have been Donna instead of Katie.  In fact, a lot of Katie's stories in the 2000s/2010s seemed to be more Donna stories (going by the foundation laid out by Bill Bell in the early years)

I think Felicia's working for Spectra was a pretty well developed storyline. She was there for several years and her motivation for (and against) working for "the enemy" was explored. Sally and Felicia had an interesting dynamic where the friction between them, and Sally's tough demands on her, actually pushed Felicia to develop as an artist, almost in spite of herself. 

44 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I do recall it mentioned that money from her family bankrolled the business.  I always figured she handled the business aspect while Eric handled the creative.

In regards to their kids:

Thorne usually handled the supply chain and orders/logistics..I assume.

Ridge was a designer and had a sexual vibe to his designs that clashed with Eric's more timeless approach.

Felicia was the free spirit, whose designs didn't fit at Forrester's..and her working at Spectra was never developed.  Rebel daughter working for the enemy.

Kristen was a designer, but I often thought she only went into that because of her father..not because she had the talent or passion.  I always thought she would have worked better as a model/spokesperson.

 

And out of all the Logans, Donna made the most sense being in the fashion world with her modeling, and later getting a taste of the publishing world.  I have a feeling her getting an offer to work at Spencer Publications in early 1991 by Bill (done to stick it to Margo) would have been pursued had the original Donna opted to renew her contract.

I often have thought Heather Tom should have been Donna instead of Katie.  In fact, a lot of Katie's stories in the 2000s/2010s seemed to be more Donna stories (going by the foundation laid out by Bill Bell in the early years)

So Kristen was the Lauralee of the family and Ridge was the Brad. 

Too bad that they didn't keep the fashion magazine stories longer. 

Caroline was a Stephanie in the making with Brooke being her Beth.

I am obsessed with early B&B. Margo should have stayed longer and Brooke's first baby should have been Ridge's with her marrying Thorne in order to raise the child as a Forrester. Margo should have been Mrs. Eric Forrester.  

3 minutes ago, SAPOUNOPERA said:

Caroline was a Stephanie in the making with Brooke being her Beth.

Maybe if Joanna Johnson had stuck around as Caroline this could've happened, and maybe we wouldn't have been saddled with Don Diamont's Bill.

Just now, Liberty City said:

Maybe if Joanna Johnson had stuck around as Caroline this could've happened, and maybe we wouldn't have been saddled with Don Diamont's Bill.

We still have Caroline's twin sister. If the show wanted to bring back the Spencers, why not let Karen be the one running the publishing empire instead of some son we never heard about (and still to this day his existence has not been explained - we don't even know who his mother is or where he fits into the Spencer family timeline). Karen still owns 50% of SP and we NEVER hear it mentioned. 

41 minutes ago, Videnbas said:

We still have Caroline's twin sister. If the show wanted to bring back the Spencers, why not let Karen be the one running the publishing empire instead of some son we never heard about (and still to this day his existence has not been explained - we don't even know who his mother is or where he fits into the Spencer family timeline). Karen still owns 50% of SP and we NEVER hear it mentioned. 

It would’ve been fun to find out that ole $Bill Jr. was an imposter.

47 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

Maybe if Joanna Johnson had stuck around as Caroline this could've happened, and maybe we wouldn't have been saddled with Don Diamont's Bill.

I know some people didn’t enjoy it, but I thoroughly enjoyed the evolution of Caroline Spencer. She became assertive, even bold in many regards and she wasn’t afraid to mix it up with Stephanie, or anybody for that matter. I could understand why JJ wanted to leave though, soaps tend to exhaust their talent and from the very beginning to the end, Caroline was always involved in some heavy heavy storylines.

1 hour ago, Videnbas said:

We still have Caroline's twin sister. If the show wanted to bring back the Spencers, why not let Karen be the one running the publishing empire instead of some son we never heard about (and still to this day his existence has not been explained - we don't even know who his mother is or where he fits into the Spencer family timeline). Karen still owns 50% of SP and we NEVER hear it mentioned. 

Honestly, I feel like Karen was never a fully developed character. To me, it was Bradley Bell's way of trying to fix a situation he created himself. Surely his father would've done ten times better than that. Makes me wonder if Johnson would've left had William J. Bell still been writing.

35 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I know some people didn’t enjoy it, but I thoroughly enjoyed the evolution of Caroline Spencer. She became assertive, even bold in many regards and she wasn’t afraid to mix it up with Stephanie, or anybody for that matter. I could understand why JJ wanted to leave though, soaps tend to exhaust their talent and from the very beginning to the end, Caroline was always involved in some heavy heavy storylines.

I'm at about episode 265 in "season two," so she's currently battling her feelings for Ridge (ew) and talking to Stephanie about Brooke. Am loving the harder direction she is taking, a-la Bill Spencer.